| By opcode on July 07 2008, 21:05 | So this post explains a lot what happened between Bazix and MSXA....
I see that MSXA is now mentioning an ESE MSX System 4. And I also read that MSXA was going to present a new roadmap during the last couple of MSX events. Would anyone who participate of such events please tell us what MSXA is planning? I mean, I am curious about their roadmap for the MSX....
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 21:25 | Explains a lot? Not really… 
Oh, ah… you mean the post on their website. Interesting, it also offers the necessary clarification with regard to the recent trademarks confusion. Nice that they’re posting so much! I’ll have to subscribe to their RSS feed .
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 21:28 | wolf, they're frickin' liars. why do you even post it here?
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 21:32 | Samor, must we only hear the Bazix/MRC side of the story? Those reports (e.g. with regard to the ‘license transfer’ to MSX Corporation) only caused confusion.
And, in fact, MRC did not report about the more interesting posts on the MSX Association blog. This news item is about MSX Association trying to find an ESE 3 distributor.
It is time we get a nice ‘Planet MSX’ blog aggregation site, which is accessible to all and independent. Maybe then people will read the incidental MSX post I make on my website, too .
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 21:34 | did you do "tracert eur.msxa.org" yet, grauw?
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 21:37 | Yes, MSX Association has contacted TNI (amongst several other parties), and like TNI has organised the MSX 25th anniversary event, TNI is also hosting the European website. So?
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 21:37 | that's reason enough for me to doubt anything.
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 21:42 | Bazix has been in close contact with MSX Association for a long time the past couple of years and has had a lot of opportunities, yet achieved little. It is surprising that Bazix now seems to be blaming TNI for their failure. The contact between TNI and MSX Association is only fairly recent. So given that, I am not sure who you should be doubting.
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 21:45 | I don't doubt tracert. The fact you even hint at that Bazix is blaming TNI (they never did) says enough.
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 21:46 | Why should you doubt tracert?
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| By wolf_ on July 07 2008, 21:48 | Samor, this was MSX news, whether relevant or not, whether honest or not, whether interesting or not, I post. The mud throwing was not news, it was just mud throwing, and is better kept where it came from. In any case, it's private matter anyway. MRC is not a collosseum where two gladiators are trying to chop their opponent's head off while trying to win the audience. At least, it shouldn't be..
I actually expect people to be intelligent enough to draw their own conclusions, no one needs to be told (or shouted to) what to think, what to say, what to believe, or who to 'choose'. Come on ppl, we're 30+ on average, the time some (economy ^_^) teacher could impress you with an angry loud voice is far behind us.
I'd say, use your common sense and make your own conclusions. After that we can RNFF again.. 
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 21:48 | to grauw: I said, I don't. the fact eur.msxa.org points to tni.nl with a tracert proves enough. If it's actually legit (and I'm afraid it is), it's even worse than I could've ever imagined not too long ago.
I'll try to keep polite about this, but I've seen shit like this for quite a while now, and at some point I have trouble just acting like there's nothing happening...
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 21:56 | Samor, get your facts straight. The post by Rikusu (Rieks, from Bazix) on July 06 2008, 15:31 in the Bazix breaks relationship with MSX Association news item most certainly seems to be blaming TNI. Additionally, no-one is denying that the MSX Association’s Europe site is hosted by TNI, least of all I. Did you not read my response above?
Either way, as a member of TNI you must understand that I can not let unfounded accusations go without response . Statements like “they're frickin' liars”, “it's even worse than I could've ever imagined not too long ago”, “The fact you even hint at that Bazix is blaming TNI (they never did) says enough” and the insinuations made don’t sit well with me.
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 22:00 | Where did they say TNI in their post?
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| By wolf_ on July 07 2008, 22:01 | Grauw, do you by any chance happen to know who that TT is? (operator of eur.msxa) And/or who 'admin' is? (it's not a JP person for sure)
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 22:06 | @Samor: I am not referring to the post itself, but to the comment by Rieks, if you scroll down.
@Wolf: Nope, I don’t. Why can it not be a Japanese person? Shiozawa (is that the guy’s name?) at the 25th anniversary event did seem to speak quite good English. I am sure however that nothing would be posted there by TNI without the consent of MSX Association. Given the ‘Bazix breaks relationship with MSX Association’ post, it is not strange however that MSX Association is responding and giving some clarification. You will have to ask Patriek, he deals with MSX Association, not I .
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| By opcode on July 07 2008, 22:08 | Ok, but the question remains: what are the MSXA plans for the MSX in the future? Did anyone see their new roadmap? Does anyone know what are the features for the newly planned ESE MSX system 4?
And since you mentione dit: isn't it incredible that the main western MSX website haven't posted any info about the things I am asking above? Unless MSXA hasn't shown anything... Anyway, I hope their problems with MSXA doesn't get in the way of posting news about all the exciting MSX projects going on...
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 22:14 | Apparantly MSXA is ramping up their activities in several European countries (also given this news post), which is good news.
MSXA had a presentation at the end of the 25th anniversary event about the compact ESE System 4, it seemed pretty cool. One of the most interesting features to me seemed the possibilities for it to interact with the ESE System 3, including theoretically increasing the available hardware capacity (aka emulated devices) by combining them. I’d post a photo of the imagery, but we were asked not to, I’m not sure how much they want us to reveval.
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| By wolf_ on July 07 2008, 22:14 | @Wolf: Nope, I don’t. Why can it not be a Japanese person? Shiozawa (is that the guy’s name?) at the 25th anniversary event did seem to speak quite good English.
No he didn't, I couldn't make cheese from it were it not for Manuel who translated/explained stuff here and there during the presentation. Yesterday I spent a number of hours chatting with Shiozawa on IRC, I guarantee you: the English on eur.msxa is proper flawless English, the chat was (language-wise) a mess. The one who wrote the texts on eur.msxa is either a native English speaker or someone with excellent English skills.
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 22:17 | hmm.. I said "frickin liars", but I never said who "they" are... if YOU think that's TNI, maybe that's YOUR problem, Grauw.
anyway, If I think something is bad , that's my opinion. If you don't like that, that's YOUR opinion. We all can have different opinions 
Bazix as a company never made any accusations. If individuals did it, that's to them, even if they work at a certain company.
I'm just sad it ended up this way, and I guess you know who... no, which "company/organisation" I'm blaming for this. I can do that. They did the same thing themselves, afterall.
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| By opcode on July 07 2008, 22:21 | Geez, now that I have read all posts in the MSXA website... what a mess!! How could MSXA loose control of things like that?!! And how can Mr Nishi be part of both MSXA and MSX Licensing and be in the middle of this whole mess.... ???!!! If D4 released the OCM illegally, how could Mr Nishi work with them again in the Wii VC??!! That doesn't make any sense...
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 22:28 | well, thank TNI for their great effort to revive MSX?
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 22:34 | Oh, must be me living in Japan for a year (he’s much better at English than most Japanese ;p), I had no trouble understanding him . Found it weird already that Manuel was translating him! ^_^
Also, IRC is quick medium, I can imagine that it is harder to use proper English there than when taking your time to write a blog post of a couple of paragraphs . It certainly seems to have a Japanese ‘sound’ to it (choice of words, etc.) if you ask me. Also consider the possibility that the post was edited to improve the language by a good English speaker. But either way, your guess is as good as mine. It says MSX Association in big letters at the top though, and it is on the msxa.org domain.
@Samor: Oh, come on, in your followup post you point to tracert (which ends at tni.nl) as ‘proof’ of your statement. Don’t spin it please…
@opcode: Yeah, it seems that things became a bit of a mess. Whether it’s D4E or MSX Association’s fault, I don’t know, probably both are to blame. I’m sure neither likes the current situation either (although, in the end, that’s business). But at least MSX Association is trying to get things up and running in Europe, been on several visits too (now and in the past), whereas D4E never did anything for the European community. And MSX Association have the ESE folks’ support.
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| By opcode on July 07 2008, 22:36 | Grauw: Thanks for sharing the info.
Now I am even more intrigued: Wasn't the 25th anniversary event open to the public, or was it private? Because I can’t understand all the secrecy...
Anyway, when you say ESE System 3, do you mean OCM? If not, does that mean that we would need to buy the ESE System 3 to be able to use the ESE System 4? It isn't clear to me if the System 4 is a standalone device or an add-on.
I remember that several years ago, one of the new MSX Magazines shown a roadmap for the OCM, and back then they were planning a 2nd OCM, using a bigger FPGA, that would be able to run MSX2+ and, later, TR stuff. Is that still the plan, is the System 4 the 2nd OCM?
Also, did they mention anything about a new MSX Magazine? Thanks!
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 22:40 | >quote: @Samor: Oh, come on, in your followup post you point to tracert (which ends at tni.nl) as ‘proof’ of your statement. Don’t spin it please…
Do not worry; I leave the spinning to TNI. You guys are wayyy better at it, afterall.
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| By EVPON on July 07 2008, 22:43 | When I was at Barcelona MSX meeting the Pocket MSX picture was showed. No explanation, nothing. It's this project the ESE MSX SYSTEM 4?
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 22:46 | @opcode:
The event was public, but there is a difference between revealing your plans to a small audience of enthusiasts and posting it on the internet . I’m sure more information will become available in due time.
Yes, the ESE MSX System 3 (ESE 3) is the same as the 1chip MSX that was by D4E. ESE is the MSX users group that developed the hardware, and D4E produced and sold it under license. The ESE MSX System 4 is a standalone device, but the abilities to use it with the ESE 3 (or any other MSX!) are interesting, it does not just connect to the PC, I like that. I think the ESE 4 had a bigger FPGA, but I’m not sure about it. At least its design is different, so it is not just the ESE 3 with a bigger FPGA.
@Samor: Oh, quit it already. If you don’t have anything to say but repeat the same slander towards TNI, just stay silent.
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| By Samor on July 07 2008, 22:50 | hmm, and what did TNI do in the past? How about having a taste of your OWN accusations?
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| By Grauw on July 07 2008, 22:51 | @EVPON: I don’t know about Barcelona, but MSX Association was (as far as I know) at MadriSX and I think gave a presentation there just like they did at the event in the Netherlands.
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| By opcode on July 07 2008, 23:50 | Grauw: Last question: since you seem to be involved with TNI, which company should I contact now about MSX software distribution? TNI? MSXA?
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| By Grauw on July 08 2008, 01:50 | There’s a contact form at MSX Association’s European site http://eur.msxa.org/ , that seems the appropriate place for inquiries of that kind…
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| By DemonSeed on July 08 2008, 02:53 | Quote:
| MSX Association requested Bazix many times to not collect money from non-profit groups and organizations. However, we were informed that Bazix did in fact collect money from these types of groups. If your non-profit group or organization paid Bazix for the use of the MSX logo, trademarks or copyrights, please contact us.
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*PFFFRT* *almost chokes on sip of beer* WHA HA HA! Fuckin' ROFLMFAO!!! Rich stuff! Brilliant!!! 
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| By Samor on July 08 2008, 06:46 | hm yeah, it's quite a sad joke what's being posted there....
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| By DemonSeed on July 08 2008, 10:50 | Next post might be about how Papa Smurf is actually Gargamel's greatest ally.
[EDIT] Well yeah, it's quite sad indeed, but I'm trying to stay positive by having a good laugh at the humorous sideshows while watching our scene slowly sinking into hell.
...But we won't let that happen, will we?
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| By sjoerd on July 08 2008, 13:23 | I don’t understand why they are going to sell the system3 when there is a system4 ready. Who is going to buy a 5 years old system when there is a new and improved one?
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| By Patsie on July 08 2008, 15:57 | @Sjoerd: is that a trick-question? aren't we all using 25 year old systems, while there are brand spanking new computers ready for sale?
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| By [D-Tail] on July 08 2008, 16:03 | Patsie: I think sjoerd means that there's a redundant choice between buying a System4 that is a soft core MSX turboR or a System3 that is a soft core MSX2 (or 2+, depending on how far HRA! and consorts can get it).
Disclaimer: I'm not saying that the #4 is available nor that it will be a soft core turboR
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| By dvik on July 08 2008, 17:00 | Quote:
| Who is going to buy a 5 years old system when there is a new and improved one
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I still buy 25 year old systems when I could buy a PS3 or similar for the same price
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| By Grauw on July 08 2008, 19:33 | @Sjoerd: Well, they looked like they were going to be kind of different devices… ESE 3 being more like a ‘real’ MSX (with joystick ports and cartridge slot, etc.) while the ESE 4, being cartridge-sized, doesn’t have room for those. So the ESE 3 definitely still has value, even after ESE 4 is in production. Also, no word on how close the ESE 4 is to production…
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| By manuel on July 08 2008, 23:47 | So, is anyone willing to help MSXA to distribute stuff in the Netherlands?? Maybe Sunrise?
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| By EVPON on July 09 2008, 11:00 | Then definitely ESE MSX SYSTEM 4 is the project which Shiozawa showed at Barcelona meeting (and others places I think...). A mini MSX called Pocket MSX in a cartridge case with SD slot, jack audio ouput, cursors, DC connector and two fire buttons. I only could deduce this from a simple image. Just like a portable MSX, Tsujikawa said in a interview that this project was his dream and soon it will be real.
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| By sjoerd on July 09 2008, 11:06 | So a system 4 is just a cartridge you could put in any msx? Like a SNES SuperFX chip  Strange name, but it could be fun.
I assume they already contacted sunrise, since that is sort of the place to go for msx hardware outside japan. I mean, who doesn't think of sunrise first in cases like this? So my guess would be that tni will be the new MSX Association distributor for the Netherlands.
But it is strange that there are already solutions in other countries. What/who are those solutions?
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| By FiXato on July 09 2008, 13:35 | And which other countries?
Out of curiosity: has there been mentioning of ESE MSX System 4 on Japanese websites already?
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| By cax on July 09 2008, 15:54 | Where is my Israeli distributor ?
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| By sjoerd on July 09 2008, 17:27 | In Israel, of course
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| By cax on July 09 2008, 19:32 | As far as I know I am the only MSX maniac in Israel, so it would be ineffective to have a local redistributor. If they claim to have solutions for all other countries, then I have to know what is the solution for me. And, BTW, what's wrong with NL ? Why it needs something special in comparison to all other european countries ?
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| By wolf_ on July 09 2008, 19:43 | We already have solutions for other countries
That doesn't say 'all other countries', does it? It may as well be just Italy, Spain, Argentina and France or something..
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| By FiXato on July 09 2008, 19:50 | Argentina is Europe?
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| By wolf_ on July 09 2008, 19:59 | Prolly not.. ok, bad luck for Argentina then.. ^_^
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| By DemonSeed on July 09 2008, 21:56 | Don't cry for it, Argentina! The truth is, it never left you.
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| By Samor on July 09 2008, 22:32 | "Well yeah, it's quite sad indeed, but I'm trying to stay positive by having a good laugh at the humorous sideshows while watching our scene slowly sinking into hell.
...But we won't let that happen, will we?"
well, I guess that's a better way to look at it, yeah... especially the last part. The last thing anyone wants is the demise of the msx community (at least I hope that's the case)
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| By Vampier on July 11 2008, 05:46 | This 'discussion' had gotten me laughing so hard.... come one... how many MSX nerds are there left in Holland? I bet they are all on this website (except the ones that claim to be banned but ban others for just the same reason as they claim to be banned for)
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| By andete on July 11 2008, 08:44 | The european msxa site seems to be unreachable?
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| By sjoerd on July 11 2008, 11:41 | I just hope eur.msx.org was hacked by some people to make msx association look bad...
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| By Samor on July 13 2008, 13:34 | *looks at earlier posts .... hmm, anger outbursts are a bad thing.
I heard some people didn't quite like my recent posts.
I've been very unhappy with many "political" things TNI has done in the MSX community in recent times, leading to those posts.
I could've, however, worded things less harsh.
Also, my criticism is directed to TNI as a group, not any individuals. And it's just about the politics too, not their MSX development efforts.
As for the "frickin' liars" thing - I was referring to very colored press releases I read on for example eur.msxa.org. Maybe I should've talked about "creative writing" instead, but there was something fundamentally wrong with those articles.
If people really got as worked up as I heard - that was not the intention, rather, I hope an end can be put to the childish fights within the msx community. Angry outbursts are never a problem solver; I should've known better.
Finally, seeing as how things have turned out recently: Please let this whole commercial MSX thing just END, please. It's getting nowhere. I understand some people want OCM's, and I hope they can get them, but the community is much more important than the whole commercial thing.
I guess that many people still don't like my opinion, but my apologies for the outburst.
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| By SLotman on July 13 2008, 15:26 | Does anyone know what happened to eur.msx.org? Still offline...
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| By AuroraMSX on July 13 2008, 16:21 | Quote:
| Argentina is Europe? :-P
|
Since Wim-Lex married Maxima, Argentina is the 13th dutch province, didn't you know? ;-)
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| By Samor on July 13 2008, 22:06 | after some more talking to people, I realised that I talked without fully knowing exactly what about, and that was a dumb thing to do.
At this point I do not know everything either, but enough to realise my mistake.
So, I'd like to apologise to TNI, MSXA and people I might have hurt in the process.
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| By nikodr on July 29 2008, 07:50 | i dont know whom to blame but i am fed up with that crap.I have given my email to bazix to wait for the european release of one chip msx.All these years i wanted to buy one and nothing appeared!
All they are doing is losing customers,i know 3-4 other people that would want to buy one chip msx.The msx MSX-A or whoever has the rights for the msx logo,just loses customers.
And no i dont want to import a japanese one from ebay and pay higer prices.
We just need a new european one model.
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