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| | | | Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:41 Submitted by: mars2000you Topic: Websites | | A new MSX community portal, MSX Blue has been launched. This bilingual (English and French) website includes a forum and intends to be an independant place for MSX information and discussion. The website also hosts several websites of MSX community projects and is created and maintained by one of the blueMSX co-developers.
Relevant link: MSX Blue |
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| By snout on April 14 2005, 12:18 | ok, I feel a -long- discussion coming up, and you were probably hoping for a reaction like this, but euhm... I could not resist ^_^
First of all, I would appreciate it if you'd cut it out with the FUD on 'conflicts of interest'. There simply isn't any and I think that, especially against the MRC, a bit of 'benefit of doubt' would be in place until you can prove with facts that there is indeed a conflict of interest. Unfortunately for you, there aren't any facts, as there isn't a conflict of interest.
Second, there are at least two MSX revivals going on. One is -indeed- made by the MSX community and it's one I cherish a lot. No doubt about that. The other is, however, an attempt to re-commercialize the MSX computer system. This is not done by a company that has been inactive on the MSX community for 10 years, but by a new team of people that have been very active within the MSX community for the past decades. Just look at the people at Bazix and the many people at MSX Association. Somehow you neglect that fact when it doesn't suit you, while you shout it of the rooftops when you play the 'conflict of interest' cards.
The commercial MSX revival and the community MSX revival can perfecly co-exist next to each other, benefit from each other, help each other and go hand in hand. (And when they don't want to, they don't have to either).
The only constant factor in the MSX story is Kazuhiko Nishi, who even deeply apologized for letting MSX go (and explained why he did so) in 2001. Besides, it was more a case of business partners letting MSX go than ASCII/Nishi dropping MSX.
Really, mars2k. You should know me well enough that I like every new MSX initiative, and I wish you all the luck with MSX Blue. I'm actually hoping for more and more MSX community portals to appear in the future, as too many have disappeared in the past already. However, as you can read above, I'm quite disappointed that you promote your website with FUD and putting others down, cleverly not directly mentioning any names. You don't need that, m2k. You really don't.
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| By wolf_ on April 14 2005, 12:59 | FUD excists because of 2 things:
- ppl creating FUD
- ppl following/copying FUD because there's no other data to be found
You can't do a thing about the first, you *can* do a bit about the second, by simply providig news/proper data regulary. And Snøt, you know we talked about that already on msn, it's up to mrc/bazix to come with news, to eventually come up with news or not come with news at all, but meanwhile it's perfectly logical that FUD pops-up now and then. (which doesn't justify it ofcourse)
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 13:46 | Snout, I was indeed waiting for your reaction, but I'm thinking that overreacting is not always on my side.
I think that the position displayed on my site is moderated : no precise indications of concerned websites, no "mrcno" button, no indications of facts that prove "conflicts of interests", and using of the word 'eventual'.
But saying that proving facts doesn't exist is contrary to the truth. Regular visitors of this site and of msxposse know for example the Aleste English IPS patch incident. It has happened and it proves that conflict of interests can exist.
Let's hope that it will never happen, but on this matter, Bazix/Woomb must prove that he has learned his lesson and that MRC is really independant.
For the rest, my choice of promoting only the non-commercial MSX Revival is not new for me. Since the first (beta) version of the MSX-PLAYer, I had indeed decided to not promote the commercial revival.
Both can indeed exist, because their targets are different, but a commercial revival doesn't need the support of the 'old' scene (still active), the MSX-PLAYER and all games embedded in this limited emulator are for the 'new generation' that is now between 10 and 30 years old and wants to start immediately a game on the Windows OS.
Finally, thanks for your general appreciation about new MSX initiatives ! 
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| By Sonic_aka_T on April 14 2005, 18:34 | Quote:
| But saying that proving facts doesn't exist is contrary to the truth. Regular visitors of this site and of msxposse know for example the Aleste English IPS patch incident. It has happened and it proves that conflict of interests can exist.
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That incident is not a conflict of interest at all. MRC had nothing to do with that situation, so I don't see what the conflict of interest would be. You might not have liked that particular action by Bazix, but that doesn't have anything to do with conflicting interests either. Bazix aims to commercialize that product, so it's only logical they intend to protect their interests in their future market. That doesn't make for a conflict of interests tho, apart from the fact perhaps that Bazix's interests conflict with those of other people with other interests... 
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| By Rikusu on April 14 2005, 18:45 | Can somebody explain to me what the Aleste English IPS patch, of which I distributed the core material (that is, the translation) via the Sargon site, has got to do with MRC and Bazix?
One openhearted feeling of mine that I really need to share with you: the only result of the Aleste IPS patch incident is that I have become quite reluctant to make any translation freely available again. The incident was all about disrespect towards me and towards Tsunami (the translator), as our wishes were clearly not respected and we apparently had to motivate WHY we didn't wish OUR intellectual property (of which nobody ever said that it was freeware) to be freely spread on the internet. The fact that it is even a crime doing so, illuminates that it is the general opinion of society that something like that is not done, not a threat that I would take anyone to court.
Stories like THAT are utterly destructive to the MSX scene. Bazix is not, neither is MRC.
Although some peoples' lives evolve around making twists in these kinds of things in order to make it look like it was MRC or Bazix that caused the damage.
Anyway, as long as this Aleste patch incident keeps popping up from time to time in a criticizing way, expect no more translations distributed freely by me anymore. Sigh.
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 18:51 | First, MRC post this :
http://www.msx.org/newspost1383.html
In a second time, it posts this :
http://www.msx.org/newspost2230.html
Excerpt :
"Today an MSX IPS Patch Archive has been opened where IPS Patch files for MSX games can be downloaded. Currently it contains some IPS Patch files for ROM images that were taken offline some time ago like a patch for creating an English version of Aleste 1 and the patch for replacing the Japanese emoticons in Usas with English ones. "
So, the patches were fully legal in august 2004. Some months after, it's no more the case after Bazix intervention ....
That's conflict of interests !
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| By Rikusu on April 14 2005, 19:01 | Neither I nor Hans knew about this patch. As soon as I discovered it, I asked BiFi to remove it. The same request was done to Generation MSX, where the English version was hosted without approval as well. These matters didn't concern Bazix. One reason for me to put the English Aleste online on my site was in order to attract visitors. That's also the reason why the English translation wasn't declared freeware. Apparently, though, there were people who assumed it was freeware as it could be downloaded for free from my site, but that's a mistake in their judgement, which I corrected by simply sending a polite removal request to the people who hosted it elsewhere.
There's nothing more to the story, so tell me, where does Bazix or MRC come in?
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 19:07 | The paradox is here :
- it was not legal to put the English rom on your site (but it was before your involvement in Bazix, so I can understand the 'tolerance'
- by nature, a patch is always legal (remember the patches for MSX-DOS 2 to get 2.4 or 2.41 versions)
No intervention of Bazix ? I have my doubts ...
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| By Rikusu on April 14 2005, 19:19 | A patch is NOT always legal. It particularly is NOT when it contains somebody else's intellectual property (in case you didn't know: translations themselves are copyrighted as well). A patch makes no infringements in the original developer's copyrights, but is DOES infringe the translator's ones!
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 19:24 | Correction :
GuyveR800 version is on the 1st page of the thread
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| By Rikusu on April 14 2005, 19:33 | Well, if it is different, it's untrue. Who knows better what is the story behind MY product, me or GuyveR?
Anyway, I think I made my point clear. I gave you a short story that literally contains everything that was going on concerning the Aleste patch, there IS no more. So if you prefer to believe the fairytales that are made up about the Aleste patch on the forum to which you placed a link, go ahead. Although I do agree that conspiracy theories are a lot more fun to believe than such a dull and 'nothing going on'-like story I wrote above 
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 19:40 | If I follow you, then I could make a french translation, convert it into a IPS patch and put this patch online ? Right ?
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| By Grauw on April 14 2005, 19:51 | Ahem. I’m not going to read all this .
With regard to the Aleste patch, I responded to that thread back then to set some things straight.
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| By Rikusu on April 14 2005, 19:55 | I think so, though I'm too lazy at the moment to check it out for you. But hey, like I stated, I have no intentions to sue anyone, so for that matter you can as well just continue spreading the English translation around. It's just that I disapprove and think the word 'respect' means something else to you as it does to me. And that was exactly what I was stating. Have fun.
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| By Grauw on April 14 2005, 20:01 | Oh, and: "the only result of the Aleste IPS patch incident is that I have become quite reluctant to make any translation freely available again."
Somehow I have my doubts, when someone turns a priorly free product into a paid product (or rather: not available at all, and with a yet uncertain future availability), whether I’d expect you would do that anyway. Additionally, all translations you made so far that I know of, or at least the bulk of it, were paid as well. So you aren’t exactly oriented towards giving things away anyway.
And that’s fine with me! Effort went into that, and why should you not get something for it. But just don’t expect me to be impressed by the above statement .
~Grauw
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| By Grauw on April 14 2005, 20:04 | You have your mouth full of ‘respect’, but with regard to that I don’t think spreading something for free for a long time, then getting back on it and going to sell it (and only on an emulator) is very respectful either. Once you bring something in the open, it’s out of your control, and getting back on that is certainly ‘not done’ either.
~Grauw
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| By Grauw on April 14 2005, 20:08 | Anyways, you guys started this argument yourselves this time, so don’t blame me this time! Had there not been such long and angry posts, I wouldn’t even have bothered to look at the site for more than a few seconds to notice that it uses the most horrible font and colour scheme, no offense mars .
I’m going to do something else now though.
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 20:14 | No problem, Grauw, with your comment about the design of my site .... but I wanted something like color 15,4,4 (and some variants)
About the fonts : I can indeed try another fonts
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 21:07 | I've just changed the fonts and the color for the 'long' texts.
I hope that it's better
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| By wolf_ on April 14 2005, 21:32 | It's the full blue which is better of being something like color=(1,3,5) ..
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| By Bart on April 14 2005, 21:56 | Maybe you can ask some help of the bluemsx.com designer?? That site rocks!
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| By mars2000you on April 14 2005, 22:15 | Yes, the design of bluemsx.com is great !
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