| | MSX Compilation Vol. 2 - Contents unveiled |
| | Monday, May 25, 2009 - 10:01 Submitted by: Ivan Topic: Games & Demos | | Source: MRC forum - Spanish section
Ramones has unveiled the contents of the MSX compilation cartridge that is going to be sold at the 35th Barcelona RU this Saturday. This time the new 8Mbit cartridge is dedicated to isometric games. All of the MSX1 games included have been disassembled and reprogrammed in order to run in any MSX with at least 64kB of RAM. It also features an easy selection menu to choose between 50Hz/60Hz and to enable the R800 mode on turbo-R computers. The center piece of this collection is the new and impressive remake of Knight Lore for MSX2 created by Retroworks (Manuel Pazos and Daniel Celemín). The complete index of games: - La Abadía del Crimen
- La Abadía del Crimen for MSX2. Now you can load/save games from/into the cartridge
- Alien 8
- Alien 8 for MSX2. Remake by Manuel Pazos and Daniel Celemín
- Batman
- Bubbler
- El Cid
- Gun Fright
- Head Over Heels
- Knight Lore
- Knight Lore for MSX2. Remake by Manuel Pazos and Daniel Celemín
- Mad Mix 2
- Martianoids
- Night Shade
- Pentagram
- Zona 0
As occurred with the first compilation cartridge MSX Compilation Vol. 1, this new second volume is going to be sold only at the 35th RU and it is limited to 25 copies. Knight Lore can be acquired as a standalone cartridge, too. The price of MSX Compilation Vol. 2 is 25 euro.
Relevant link: AAMSX |
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| By muffie on May 25 2009, 15:07 | Someone can plz DUMP everything so we can create PIRATED copies of the cartridge?
It's virtually IMPOSSIBLE for us to buy those... Of course, I could always ask for a vacation here, buy some airplane tickets for over 1.000 euros and etc...
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| By cidra on May 25 2009, 16:02 | Funny.
People say it's "piracy" or "illegal" to download rom and dsk images from the internet for free (in theory, of course), but it's possbile to sell copies of the same games in a cartridge.
Are all those games freeware, abandonware or similar?
Opera, Ocean and others are aware of this? Copyrights?
Anyway, I don't care. It's just curious...
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| By muffie on May 25 2009, 16:28 | Normally people don't care, but Spanish, guys in general, seems so self-centric that appears that they want to create some real nice things (like those cartridges), but they want to assure that just some few Spanish users would be able to have'em.
The problem is: If you want to do something EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR like that, PLZ, don't publish that as news on MRC.
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| By makinavaja on May 25 2009, 20:06 | All of this has an explanation... but, as someone said the spanish guys in general seems so self-centric, maybe then he knows everything about us, because he asked about it, or maybe because he knows all the aamsx group and why we do such things... So, as an AAMSX member, I'm not going to lose any time trying to explain anything, just because all spanish guys are self-centric and do extremly unpopular stuff like that.
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| By muffie on May 25 2009, 20:38 | My father graduated in Spain, BTW.
Anyway, so, WHY such a great product is not sold to anyone?
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| By hap on May 25 2009, 20:41 | It's obvious this is against the law, but it might not be against (most) people's personal standpoints, eg. I wouldn't really care about it if the money goes to rent for the fair's building, or free drinks to the visitors. I'm as curious as cidra for an explanation.
*edit* saw the pics, the packaging/cart sticker quality looks great btw. 
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| By muffie on May 25 2009, 21:29 | hap, no one is questioning how great the product is: It's awesome.
And, at least for me, I really don't care about copyright...
My only problem is: Why can't I order it?
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| By lionelritchie on May 25 2009, 22:49 | cidra:
the ultimate games (night shade, gun fright, knightlore) are still copyrighted and ultimate already manifested their will: they dont want this games distributed or sold. the guys at world of spectrum contacted them about it and they are clear: selling ultimate games is illegal.
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| By thinlizzy on May 25 2009, 22:54 | it seems msx.org piracy policies have been lifted out 
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| By Ramones on May 25 2009, 22:59 | Muffie. You can't buy this cartridge because this cartridge is sold ONLY in the Barcelona MSX meeting.
I understand that you want buy this cartridge, but I hope you understand that this product can't be sold out of the fair.
This product have two reasons:
1) AAM makes this cartridge for try that MSX users go to the fair.
2) Money to pay rent of MSX fair place. (Remember free entrance for the users and booths).
AAM is a non-profit association. We can't make money. We can't sell this product out of the fair.
Sorry.
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| By lionelritchie on May 25 2009, 23:04 | piracy... is a very bad thing.
i once pirated software, in 1986.
i killed software.
i sold software.
life is very complicated.
the creature who pirates ultimate games... has no soul.
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| By muffie on May 25 2009, 23:24 | Quote:
| 1) AAM makes this cartridge for try that MSX users go to the fair.
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I would love to go, but, as I said, I'm at least 1.000 euros away, in a different hemisphere with the Atlantic Ocean between me and the fair.
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| Money to pay rent of MSX fair place. (Remember free entrance for the users and booths).
AAM is a non-profit association. We can't make money. We can't sell this product out of the fair.
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Can't really see a difference. You can make money to pay the rent, but you can't make money by selling to anyone outside the fair?
Let's do something: Give me AAM paypal account and I'll happily send you guys a 50 euros donation. In exchange, not related in any way, I receive the two compilations...
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| By lionelritchie on May 25 2009, 23:28 | the atlantic ocean is no excuse.
a real msx manly lover will pay the 1000 euros + the 50 for the cartridges.
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| By spl on May 26 2009, 13:55 | muffie, even the people from Spain who are not able to go to the fair CAN'T BUY those special compilations. Don't be so boring. Also, remember that you ARE ABLE to buy ALL of the other carts which are released by Matra or by Pazos. Have you ever buy one?
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| By muffie on May 26 2009, 14:22 | Is there a cartridge of Abadia del crimen where I can save on the cartridge? That's probably one of my favorite games of all time.
BTW, I still insist to be able to receive the two compilations as a gift. I can donate money through paypal to help in the fair.
I promise I'll root for Alonso instead of Felipe Massa! 
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| By Yukio on May 26 2009, 14:41 | This is highly questionable ... and irregular. Taking precedents is a dangerous thing!
About the cartridges, a lot of users are taking the wrong impression that the MSX software market is about piracy! Much like in the old days that people KILLED Software Houses by the dozens .
Buying real cartridges? Most people like the ROM cassettes, but now the real question ... How many MSX users buy original cartridges? Would it be any good to produce more cartridges with unlicensed games? Original software is not that hard to do, even the HARDWARE part!
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| By Yukio on May 26 2009, 14:51 | It would be great to sell original cartridges with *brand new* games. Take a note for the promotion of the MSX home system ...
About the cartridges.
Now, imagine the possibility to sell *BRAND NEW* cartridges with *NEVER released* games to promote the fair!
Doing the right thing could be a grateful experience ...
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| By Ramones on May 26 2009, 16:36 | Quote:
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About the cartridges.
Now, imagine the possibility to sell *BRAND NEW* cartridges with *NEVER released* games to promote the fair!
Doing the right thing could be a grateful experience ...
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Hmmm ...
33 Ru : Majikazo, Traffic Jam, Operation Wolf
34 Ru: Perfect Fit
35 Ru: Cold Blood.
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| By hap on May 26 2009, 16:44 | Ramones: + Jetpac.
Good to hear that the money earned with the compilation isn't for profit.
muffie, you can't get the cartridge, period. Live with it.
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| By muffie on May 26 2009, 17:14 | Quote:
| All of the MSX1 games included have been disassembled and reprogrammed in order to run in any MSX with at least 64kB of RAM.
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I strongly prefer to BUY the cartridges, but,... the other option should be trying to recreate the cartridge locally.
The ROM files would be available to download?
What's the size of each one? 64k, 48k?
*PS* Any lucky fellow going to the fair would kindly buy me one? I can pay more!
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| By Yukio on May 26 2009, 17:34 | Quote:
| Hmmm ...
33 Ru : Majikazo, Traffic Jam, Operation Wolf
34 Ru: Perfect Fit
35 Ru: Cold Blood.
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The problem is that Traffic JAM, Operation Wolf and others were released for other platforms!!! Their are copyrighted matter ...
Cold Blood is nice, but I am unsure if their did use ripped matter or not ... Ripped contend is polemic too!
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| By MsxKun on May 26 2009, 19:28 | at Yukio:
If you gonna sleep better, NO, Cold Blood doesn't have ripped stuff.
Well, the text font is kinda Metal Gear 
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| By muffie on May 26 2009, 20:22 | Why all this noise about copyright anyway?
As long as you don't port those to iPhone or something with similar popularity, I bet they don't care.
but what about the poor third world skinny no-shoes Brazilian user called Muffie? Spain, Portugal and Netherlands already got all of our natural resources back in the 1500's and 1600's, and now they're preventing me to get my cart...
- "Forget Muffie, you'll never get the MSX Compilation Vol.2"
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| By Yukio on May 26 2009, 20:27 | It is difficult to sleep when someone is distributing illegal contend ... Also a lot of persons are not "really" nice. Like the ones that continue to force illegal games into the comunity ...
Cold Blood could be nice, but there is the case of the Atari lawsuit against K.C. Munchkin!.Pac-Man, Cold Blood use similar sprites and it is not easy to believe that it would be a original idea. Sure if someone wanted to avoid the copyrighted matter, putting a witch and some crowns would do wonders ... After all, bread and meat would be fancy. Imagine this with candies, another option could be water candies!
Lawsuit, remember the Atari lawsuit!
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| By Yukio on May 26 2009, 20:30 | It is difficulty to sleep when someone do something wrong.
There is a disturbing noise ...
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| Why all this noise about copyright anyway?
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Maybe some persons would need to re-check their priorities and moral values!
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| By MsxKun on May 26 2009, 20:36 | >Cold Blood could be nice, but there is the case of . Cold Blood use similar sprites, it is not easy to believe that it would be a >original idea. Sure if someone wanted to avoid the copyrighted matter, putting a witch and some crowns would do wonders ... >
>After all, bread and meat would be fancy. Imagine this with candies, another option could be water candies!
Do you realize the hundreds of Pac clones that doesn't use witches, or crowns or bread or meat...?? The fun was made it Pac.  I do it for fun, that's the important. But you're right I should have used an square Pac... Now I'll be on jail like those hundreds of evil people who created pac clones without putting witches..., poor me...
And the sprites where created pixel by pixel. Believe it or not. Anyway, try to sleep, will be good
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| By MsxKun on May 26 2009, 21:18 | That reminds me the nice Orbital tune (and some others) But then, i'm going out of topic, i'm afraid...
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| By spl on May 26 2009, 22:15 | Yukio, do you know that all the Karoshi Corp and many MSXDEV games and non MSXDEV games are being released in cartridge format?
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| By Latok on May 26 2009, 22:26 | MRC never used to report on where and how to get copyrighted stuff. It makes me a bit sad. Having a strict piracy policy is good for the site in general.
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| By Oscar on May 26 2009, 23:00 | I am astonished with this reactions. These new carts are non profit ones! I think it's great to have to opportunity to play the enhanced versions of old classics, better than the poor monochrome version. Take it like a tribute to the classics! And about "brand new games", I think spanish scene has released lot of new carts, thankfully to our great developers! Why are you talking about? Spain MSX scene actually has lot of active and nice people. It´s very easy to criticize.
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| By lionelritchie on May 26 2009, 23:01 | yukio: knightlore, gun fright are piracy. and yes, ultimate CARES about this. ask them. it's piracy, even if it is not for profit. even if it is to get some money for helping poor transsexual guys likes I was, before the change (wich, by the way, my government paid for - we now have free sex change cirurgy here), to finally get their long deserved operations to remove those little nature mistakes. so, it is PIRACY.
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| By Oscar on May 26 2009, 23:11 | Piracy is to buy a f*cking MSX cassette game years ago and try to load in your real MSX without success beacuse poor programming, incompatibility or whatelse, well is more serious... is a fraud. Now there is a cool full compatible versions and enhanced!
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| By muffie on May 26 2009, 23:30 | To tell you the truth, I'm also Brazilian and I just can't understand Yukio reactions either.
My point is just one: Why they can sell Knight Lore standalone cartridge through Internet, but not the full MSX compilation vol.2?
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 00:49 | Quote:
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To tell you the truth, I'm also Brazilian and I just can't understand Yukio reactions either.
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Yukio can comment their points of view and we must respect them. I'm professional gamecoder. And I know what is piracy and their problems. If nobody buys the games for my business, I stay out of work.
I know exactly what it costs to make a new game. Past ten years (or more), if someone download (illegal) my games, I think there will be no problems.
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My point is just one: Why they can sell Knight Lore standalone cartridge through Internet, but not the full MSX compilation vol.2?
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Do you understand Spanish? In this thread you can read explanations about "why" only 25 copies and "why" you (and all people that don't go to the MSX fair) can't buy this cartridge:
http://msxgamesbox.com/karoshi/index.php?topic=1374.msg17746
About special edition of Knight Lore, I can't say nothing. This isn't a AAM product, is a retroworks product. If you want info about this, please contact with RetroWorks (http://www.retroworks.es)
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| By muffie on May 27 2009, 03:07 | I can understand some Spanish.
To be 100% honest with you, I was not able to find any new arguments on that post.
You said that you want ppl to go to the fair. What makes sense. Probably some persons would choose not go to the fair and would prefer to just order the cartridge.
Several users were also complaining about the low number of 25 carts, what suggests that there's a probability that even ppl who go to the fair, would not be able to get the cart. You responded to that saying that you guys pay matra upfront, and producing a higher number would cost more money and you would risk not selling all carts, what would produce a money loss in the short period. Of course you could solve that last point by taking "orders" from all users that went to the fair and couldn't get the cart.
But, may I tell you again that I'm extremely far from Barcelona? That's virtually impossible for me to travel to a different continent just for a fair?
Tell me something: If we create some nice game here in Brazil. Something really amazing like Castle of Wolfenstein for MSX, and we publish both a Video in Youtube and some news at MRC saying to all the global MSX community that the game will be ONLY available to 25 MSX users that would pay 100 Brazilian Reais at the MSX Fair in Jaú - São Paulo, would you came to Jaú?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ja%C3%BA,+s%C3%A3o+paulo&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.122306,79.101563&ie=UTF8&ll=-22.240802,-48.558197&spn=0.622846,1.235962&z=10&iwloc=A
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| By lionelritchie on May 27 2009, 03:10 | liberate the roooomzzz
msx org is piracy
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| By Yukio on May 27 2009, 03:29 |
Quote:
| Yukio can comment their points of view and we must respect them. I'm professional gamecoder. And I know what is piracy and their problems. If nobody buys the games for my business, I stay out of work.
I know exactly what it costs to make a new game. Past ten years (or more), if someone download (illegal) my games, I think there will be no problems.
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Yes, most persons would think the same. There are some companies that even have some joy when someone take pirate copies of old games, believing that this would provide extra *FREE* publicity without paying one penny for the bandswitch.
There could be some problems when downloading illegal contend, the first is that some search engines can not reach the legal games (FREEWARE and SHAREWARE) . The second is the bandswitch of the illegal downloads, the flux of the Internet is not acceptable when dealing with the overflow.
About limited quantities, it was clearly stated that the cartridge is not for profit. Even some (Shareware) games are commercialized on limited quantities.
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| By cidra on May 27 2009, 04:46 | So, uploading and downloading (and even requesting) games & roms = illegal, piracy, bad thing, shame on you, burn in hell...
But selling cartridges ("not for profit" with the same games & roms = amazing, way to go...
Is that so?
As I said before, I don't care. If people are selling these kinds of products, good for them.
If the games sold are freeware or not, it's not my problem; it's the authors'...
I just find it amusing how we all get confused when talking about illegal downloads and piracy and so on.
As some foolish people say in Brazil (and I hate writing Brasil with a "z": "deixa o homem trabalhar"...
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| By muffie on May 27 2009, 16:46 | Is that it Ramones? Is that all?
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| By MrSpock on May 27 2009, 19:02 | When I saw the first posts on this new, I had a sad sensation of déja vu. Comments were somehow similar to those which appeared when the first compilation was announced last year. But, more sadly, the comments are going farther this year. Unbelievable.
First, I am Spanish. I live in Spain. I live a few hundred kilometers away from the fair. Although I would like to go to the fair, I won't go mainly because I am extremely busy at the moment and also because I should take a plane to go there. I would like to have a cartridge, but I won't have it. I can live with it. For example, there are some japanese games for playstation that will never be published in Europe and I will never have it. It is a similar situation, and I can live with it.
Second, about paying for "piracy"... those who buy the cartridge are not really paying for the games. I mean... this is not like putting some ROM files on an ugly CD and selling them. The product is a cartridge (an MSX cartridge on 2009!) containing games adapted to work on every existing MSX (so, hard work to do this!) and also containing games which have been extremely changed (lots of work, and hours, for the three MSX2 versions included!). That is a *lot* of work. So, you are paying for this.
Third, about rips and things like that. I mean... I've read some comments (which I would like to think that are ironic... otherwise, it is very sad to see people thinking like that) about the problem of Operation Wolf or Traffic Jam being previously released for other platforms. Somebody *really* thinks that these ports are morally questionable? Both have been programmed from scratch. The same applies to Cold Blood. I've never played the game, but... ripped contents? the game should be considered piracy because of using the Pacman concept? Somebody *really* thinks like that?
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| By muffie on May 27 2009, 19:35 | Piracy or copyright comments were nothing but bullshit to me. You can rip the unreleased Michael Jackson wannabe show in London and publish it in a 4.3gb cartridge that would only play on real MSX hardware and even like that, no one would care. Costs more money even to look to a large company lawyer than the loss caused by this kind of piracy.
But, I've made a question to Ramones and he have not yet answered.
And my other point is: where can I download all the reworked ROMS that are present on the cartridge? Maybe I want to create one for myself. I can do the menu and bank switching routines easily.
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| By cidra on May 27 2009, 20:01 | MrSpock:
So, you're not paying for unlicensed, non-freeware and yet "adapted" games.
You're paying for the cartridge ("a MSX cartridge on 2009!" containing those games, in a "not for profit" way, just to pay the rent for the fair...
Hours of work, three enhanced versions included and so on.
Ok, I'll buy this idea.
But who's gonna pay the authors of the original games (included in the package)?
Don't get me wrong. I'd buy the cartridge if I had the chance.
But again, how come that paying for this product is well accepted, but downloading the same games is illegal?
And muffie:
Yes, all the comments about piracy (including mine) are pure bullshit. That's my whole point!
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| By MrSpock on May 27 2009, 20:35 | Quote:
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MrSpock:
So, you're not paying for unlicensed, non-freeware and yet "adapted" games.
You're paying for the cartridge ("a MSX cartridge on 2009!" containing those games, in a "not for profit" way, just to pay the rent for the fair...
Hours of work, three enhanced versions included and so on.
Ok, I'll buy this idea.
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Yes, that's the point.
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But who's gonna pay the authors of the original games (included in the package)?
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I don't know, but probably nobody. Besides, do you think that selling these games will harm the authors of the original games? Do you think that the authors of the original games, or the companies, will lose money because of this? Do you think that somebody, nowadays, is buying the MSX tapes of those games to the original companies? Even if these companies plan to publish a compilation today, do you think that they will use the MSX versions? As muffie said, the companies may lose some money if the games were released to run on some commercial platform such as iPhone or PSP. But... on MSX?
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Don't get me wrong. I'd buy the cartridge if I had the chance.
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Me too ;-)
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But again, how come that paying for this product is well accepted, but downloading the same games is illegal?
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Legality and being well accepted are not the same thing. I know that downloading a Konami MSX game, for example, is not fully legal. But it is, let's say, well accepted. I can not see any moral issue on this.
Do not misunderstand me: I do understand your point. It's about laws. Probably a lawyer could provide a clear and absolute answer to the question. But I'm not talking about laws. My point is: nobody is harmed, it is morally acceptable. I can't see the problem.
Moreover, the product is sold as a cartridge to a limited number of people who will only play the games on real MSX. Not on PCs, not on emulators. Really, I can't see the problem.
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| By cidra on May 27 2009, 20:55 | Exactly.
So why don't we have roms at MRC, for instance?
Would it harm the authors?
I'm just talking about the "legal" aspect of this topic at MRC. We can't even post a link to other sites with roms, if I'm not mistaken.
So how is it possible to advertise a cartridge with unlicensed games for sale?
How much money are the companies losing, when people download MSX games roms and emulators for free?
And most people can't see the difference of playing those games in a MSX or in emulators.
Many PSP users download emulators and roms of several systems (not only MSX) to use with their portable console.
Is that harmful to the authors?
Is that illegal? Because it is very much morally accepted...
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 21:12 | Quote:
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Is that it Ramones? Is that all?
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Yes. In this moment, yes. Ramones is VERY BUSY working for the fair . And this thread isn't productive. We have new expositors confirmed for the Ru. I hope that this night aamsx.com can publish the new. THIS IS really important. New expositors.
Muffie. I don't know how explain this. Only 25 copies. AAM haven't money for make more. AAM sell this cartridge ONLY in the RU. AAM have more money for NEW games, but no for this compilation. These are the rules.
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 21:14 | Quote:
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Exactly.
So why don't we have roms at MRC, for instance?
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Because is PIRACY.
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| By cidra on May 27 2009, 21:18 | Then here we go again:
Selling those cartridges with unlicensed games is not?
Iit doesn't matter if they are limited to 25, hours of work, reworked, enhanced...
It's just pirate product as well.
Then why advertising it at MRC?
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 21:19 | Quote:
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Ok, I'll buy this idea.
But who's gonna pay the authors of the original games (included in the package)?
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And... who pay MY WORK converting this CAS files to MSX 64k compatible ROM files?
If you want I can send a IPS patch to convert CAS files to ROM files. This is "legal" (I guess). But is my work. Do you want PAY for my work?
If you want, I can sell this IPS files to you. (and the money for the AAM, of course) .
10 Euro for IPS file? Is good price?
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 21:25 | Quote:
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Then why advertising it at MRC?
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Sorry, but AAM post a new in a Spanish forum explain ALL stands of the 35 Ru. ALL. Not only compilation. But at this moment has not yet been published. I guess isn't my problem.
Surely, this night AAM publish good new of the fair. New expositors. I hope a new talking about THE FAIR.
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| By cidra on May 27 2009, 21:26 | Ramones, about paying for your work, talk to muffie...
And, if you're taking this work "professionally", then you have to contact the authors of those games and pay the copyrights, right?
Now, really, is that such a tremendous effort?
I've done some IPS patching with some of my roms and I don't find it so hard to do.
And your're "guessing" about it being legal or not, which just confirms my points in this discussion...I guess...
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| By MrSpock on May 27 2009, 21:32 | Quote:
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So why don't we have roms at MRC, for instance?
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MRC policy. I fully agree with this policy, but not exactly because of legality. I agree with the policy because it prevents the MRC forums to become a forum for emulator users continuously asking for ROMs and so on. Because of this policy, the forums somehow preserve the.. let's say... MSX spirit. Whatever it is ;-)
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Would it harm the authors?
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No. Neither the companies.
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I'm just talking about the "legal" aspect. We can't even post a link to other sites with roms, if I'm not mistaken.
So how is it possible to advertise a cartridge with unlicensed games for sale?
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As I told, I understand your point. However, the cartridge is not about unlicensed games, but about a hard work on adapting the games. The new is not about a webpage having tons of ROMs to download. Is about a cartridge where the games have been adapted to work on real MSX. The new won't attract hundreds of emulator users to download the games. It will attract people to the fair.
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How much money are the companies losing, when people download MSX games roms and emulators for free?
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Well, that's a different thing. But I have a clear answer: companies won't lose money at all for people downloading 20 or 30 years old games.
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Many PSP users download emulators and roms of several systems to use with their portable console.
Is that harmful to the authors?
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Harmful to the authors? No. At all. To the companies who still have the copyright? Neither. We are talking about MSX games. Not about emulation of Neo Geo, PSOne or more recent machines. We are talking about a very old computer forgotten by almost all the current companies.
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Is that illegal? Because it is very much morally accepted...
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Illegal to download games? I'm not sure. I know it is not fully legal, that's right. Morally acceptable or questionable? Well, downloading Metal Gear Solid X (for all X from 1 to 4) is morally questionable, because the company may loose some money. Downloading Abu Simbel Profanation, MSX version, is perfectly acceptable. Nobody loses nothing.
Anyway, this is my last message on this thread. It is not because of any specific message, but because at this point the thread is no longer related to the new.
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| By muffie on May 27 2009, 21:36 | I'm not here judging no ones work. I myself did several conversions (that included changing copyrighted material) and NO ONE PAID ME A CENT for it.
AT LEAST THEY'RE FREELY AVAILABLE to download, instead of Ramones converted ROMS that are kept secret just to 25 users willing to spent 25 euros.
My point is: You're morally breaking the law LESS, if you at least let ppl download your work for free...
Simple question:
1) Will you, or will you not release all the roms to be freely downloaded? (or do you think that would also prevent ppl to go to the fair)?
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| By wolf_ on May 27 2009, 21:56 | As for MRC's no-warez policy:
The problem here is the 'grey area' where news items like this one reside. At one end of the balance there is our no-warez policy, at the other end of the balance there's the self-declared warez-freedom people want. Somewhere in the center there is this grey area in which we have to take decisions. Sometimes we don't approve of something that gets submitted to us, and sometimes we feel the news value weighs in higher than the potential element of warez. As for this particular case, you may recall a few moons ago that I was rather impressed with that MSX2 remake of Knight Lore (and judging the reactions, everyone was), that was really news! Should we've ignored the release of that remake then? Yes, BlueMSX -to name something else- comes with system-ROMs, but the newsvalue of the release of a new version weighs heavier than that system-ROM aspect. Yes, the Arranger CD's were sold and contained rearranges of gamemusic (in the pro music world there's still a divider key like 66% / 33% in such cases). It's all in the grey area, because these things do have some black and white elements. It's at our discretion to choose to post or to not post about these greys. Sure you may have your doubt about the choices we make in that grey area, so be it, and we can be contacted if you want any further discussion about that. But often enough we feel people are seemingly complaining with the sole purpose to legalize illegal things: "if you post about this cartridge, why not about warez in general?", or simply: to enforce a new rule based on grey area exceptions.
There's some sorta MRC-bible, with the Genesis chapter saying: 'no warez', so this is obviously going to stay. MRC isn't going to be like other websites for similar retro systems, with a forum, a frontpage and a large download section with all the commercial games ever released - and obviously not everything legal. In similar fashion, MRC isn't going to post links to 'that MSX-warez website', which would be more or less the same as having all its contents in our download section.. both our download section and a link to 'that website' are 1 mouse click away.
And, to emphasize that we're no treehuggers either.. yes: we know that Toshiba probably isn't going to care about their HX10 ROM, yes: we know that FirstStarSoftware (who?) isn't bothered by a .CAS of Boulderdash floating around, yes: Compile (or Aiky, or whatever is left of it) probably has other things on their agenda than a .DSK or .ROM of Aleste. Probably few, if any, publishers are bothered by what they did 25 years ago (I doubt the same people are still working there anyway). And yes, there's probably no one on this whole planet with a clean and legal MSX collection o' games or utils. Point is: we all perfectly know where to get all that stuff, no need to have it visible on MRC.
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| By snout on May 27 2009, 22:19 | Don't you just love repeating this discussion every few months over and over again? Mind you, if all the time spent on discussing the MRC newsposting policy was spent on developing MSX games the [completely legal]:[grey-area] ratio would drastically improve!
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| By Walter.MSX on May 27 2009, 22:20 | Each can make his own compilations. There is no problem for the sale of this cartridge, because it's only sold in a private circle, for its material value, and not for what it contains. The answers given by Ramones are clear, and justified.
THE AAM gives itself of the evil every years (x2) to meet the passionate persons of the standard, and the purpose of this announcement is above all to assure a new fear, and not the speculation on an object which interests no more the informatic's commercial industry.
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| By manuel on May 27 2009, 22:23 | In any case: I *love* those MSX2 remakes! Keep those coming!!
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| By dvik on May 27 2009, 22:28 | I fully agree with wolf_. There is somewhat a gray area when it comes to general news worthiness and wares. But this is really only something for MRC to consider. Its good that MRC is somewhat conservative when it comes to advertising copyrighted material. If they aren't we may loose the site.
But I don't see any issues at all with the work Ramones and others have done to compile this really nice cartridge. I don't see any problems with charging a few dollars for the work they put in. The goal here is in no way to exploit the original copyrights and steal profit from the original authors. These games are more or less public domain anyways and available on the internet with little attempts by the copyright owners to restrict it.
And really, I think its great that Ramones and others actually take their time to improve these old classics and share their work on nice cartridges.
Of course it would be nice to buy one of them, but if they don't want to sell it thats their choise. Personally I'm hoping for someone to dump the cartridge so I can play it too.
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| By lionelritchie on May 27 2009, 22:31 | mrspock, even if they were not paying for the cartridges (but they are!), they are receiving cartridges with pirated games wich the owner (ultimate) still has the rights to, and this owner clearly stated that such action is illegal.
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| By muffie on May 27 2009, 22:39 | Quote:
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Of course it would be nice to buy one of them, but if they don't want to sell it thats their choise. Personally I'm hoping for someone to dump the cartridge so I can play it too.
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That's odd... hoping for someone to dump the cartridge? So, the ROMS are now copyrighted to Ramones?
We'll never see that cart, but it's filled with (C) Ramones 2009 on each rom?, or maybe long EULAs saying how illegal it is to dump the cart?
again: WHERE CAN I DOWNLOAD THEM?
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| By snout on May 27 2009, 22:43 | muffie: There's a difference between talking about warez and requesting warez. The latter is certainly not allowed on MRC. Second yellow card handed to you, pal.
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| By muffie on May 27 2009, 22:58 | Quote:
| muffie: There's a difference between talking about warez and requesting warez. The latter is certainly not allowed on MRC. Second yellow card handed to you, pal.
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WHAT!??????
Can't you notice that I'm just trying to make him tell the world that the third part copyrighted ROMS are not going to be released??
I'm tired of being threatened to be banned. If you want to do that for something THAT small do IT....
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| By thinlizzy on May 27 2009, 23:01 | it seems selling physical warez does not count 
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| By lionelritchie on May 27 2009, 23:04 | snout, advertising warez is legal? because that's what ramones is doing.
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| By lionelritchie on May 27 2009, 23:06 | and at the same time you are banning muffie because of the EXACT SAME warez.
maybe ramones is your friend, dates your sister, and muffie doesnt.
well, too bad: muffie has 22cm.
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| By wolf_ on May 27 2009, 23:06 | lionel: did you even bother reading my text above, about the grey area?
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| By snout on May 27 2009, 23:07 | -sigh- the physical warez aren't being sold on MRC. Do you think a newspaper/website reporting about people selling dope is guilty of drug trafficing as well? Come on lads, get a life. If you're only here for this kind of discussions please save yourself the effort of logging in and posting bullcrap from now on...
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| By thinlizzy on May 27 2009, 23:07 | it is obvious that grey area is just an excuse to give you freedom to ignore policies 
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| By lionelritchie on May 27 2009, 23:08 | a newspaper does not advertise dope: does not say "go to the xxxxx hemp fair to buy exclusive hemp for 25 euros".
but you are saying here in the 1st page "go to xxxx fair to buy exclusive warez in cartridge for 25 euros".
well, i give up, too bad for you, i bet ramones has only 10cm.
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| By snout on May 27 2009, 23:18 | thinlizzy: no, this grey area allows us to report about interesting developments concerning MSX and dumping the regular mindless ROM-posts/requests in the trashcan. It makes our site actually worth visiting.
To make it more easy to grasp for your feeble minds:
The MRC crew decide what to post and what to moderate. You don't. You, in your turn, may like MRC -- or not. Please visit MRC accordingly. If you don't understand why we post about so-called 'grey area stuff' (or not) don't bother bugging us about us time and time again. We don't understand you either.
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 23:25 | Quote:
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1) Will you, or will you not release all the roms to be freely downloaded? (or do you think that would also prevent ppl to go to the fair)?
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Answer this:
Is it legal to publish these ROMs or illegal?
Because I think that publishing this ROM is piracy. Or is it just that you are interested in a part of what is or is not piracy? xDDDD
Really, I'm a separated ROM versions of this games. Surely I was going to publish and free this Roms. But... you say LESS piracy but piracy, true? I'm not a pirate. Sorry. Publish this roms=0.
But, you are right. AAM are devil, bad, when only want organize fairs. FREE fairs.
Let's make a pact with "Brazilian League Anti MSX Piracy (muffie, Yukio, cendra,lioneritchie)"
BAMSXP send 500 euro to AAM to organize the fair. AAM DON'T sell this PIRACY cartridges. Of course recopilation 1, 2, Operation Wolf (piracy), Traffic Jam (piracy), Majikazo (piracy?), Cold Blood (piracy).
No cartridges in 35 Ru. Ok?
But FIRST donate 500 euro. OOOOrrr.... send NEW BRAND GAMES to sell in the Ru.
Of course, all of this is stupid.
I only see hipocrisy in this thread. In the MSX world there are a lot of this piracy. Do you remember translations of MSX japanese games? I remember to pay for this translations 1000, 2000, 3000 pts (over 5,10,15 euro). I remember to pay for t shirts with MSX logos. I remember to pay for tons of MSX "ilegal" merchadising. I remember see and to pay other compilations in CDs, ROMs, etc... And the people pay for this. I remember to pay for coleco games ported to MSX.
What's the difference with the MSX compilation? I don't know. I guess that the problems is that you want a copy but you don't understand that you can't buy a copy. For this all of this morality in your posts. When, I'M SURE you have in your HD tons of MSX PIRATED games. Hipocrisy.
Really you want this games, of course FREE. I understand this. But I don't understand your morality and your explanations about piracy. I know that if I upload the ROMS you are the FIRST users in download the roms and play. Please, be adult.
Well. I'm sorry. AAM will sell this cartridges in the ru. Call to the police.
I do not angry with anyone. But I'm very tired of this. 
I've since 96 making new games, tools, drivers, donating my games, my routines, my experience, my help, MY LIFE to the MSX community. Surely you have my games , my tools, my ports in your HD. Free. 0 euro for this. And you and your country friends say that I'm a devil, a pirate, a bad person. Ok. COJONUDO. (awesome). Really, MSX community is dead.
But, legaly you are right. This is piracy. Is the last compilation. Coming soon IPS free patchs files for CAS files to convert a this CAS files to ROM.
Salud.
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| By wolf_ on May 27 2009, 23:37 | Ahwell, it's like the Vatican complaining about The DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons: as a result of all this blah, the compilation will sell like a tit and the RU is going to be crowded.. Perfect marketing strategy, fellas
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| By FiXato on May 27 2009, 23:38 | the MSX scene is dead; long live the Amiga scene!
seriously..
go live a life instead of whining about these futile things.. Be grateful that the MRC is actually doing some reporting.. or else you would have nothing to do with your lives since you couldn't complain about this..
If you all keep complaining about the articles that are posted here, I can imagine people eventually getting fed up and stop writing news.
<sarcasm>you can also see it as their task to report about this, so the copyright owners know about the copyright-violation so they can take actions</sarcasm>
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| By Ramones on May 27 2009, 23:59 | Quote:
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Ahwell, it's like the Vatican complaining about The DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons: as a result of all this blah, the compilation will sell like a tit and the RU is going to be crowded.. Perfect marketing strategy, fellas
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Hmmm... marketing? Sorry but no. I'm talk about the RU. Can you wolf summit a new about the Ru?
You can visit aamsx.com. 4 new booths confirmed. A new record. This is a GOOD new. If you want translation Ivan (I'm sure) can help you.
[] AAMSX selling piracy
[] Paxanga Soft.
[] Kralizec show the next new "piracy" game Goonies.
[] Sd-Snatcher
[] Walter
[] Sprite Girls
[] ThePetsMode
[] Alifort Chapas
[] Imanok
[] Moai Tech
[] Karoshi Corp.
[] Taburoto
[] Calamar Group
[] Guest Platform Amiga (Zener/Ozone & Darth007)
Thanks in advance.
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| By wolf_ on May 28 2009, 00:03 | Ivan has already scheduled an RU reminder, one of these days.
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| By Ramones on May 28 2009, 00:20 | Quote:
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again: WHERE CAN I DOWNLOAD THEM?
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No place. I'm thinking that if we don't sell this recopilation we aren't pirates. Then I don't need release this roms. It's ok? AAM don't sell the games and Muffie (sorry) don't have the ROMs.
You can download CAS files (Martos web, example) and code your own ROM file. Good Luck.
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i bet ramones has only 10cm.
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MRC moderators... Can I think that this is a insult? I have only 3 cm!!!
Please, MRC moderators... cut this thread.
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| By Walter.MSX on May 28 2009, 00:20 | Forgiveness to AAM to have to film this 34° meeting without asking for any authorization.
Not please make me lawsuit.
Can I return on Saturday, May 30th to BARCELONA? (With my camera)
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| By Oscar on May 28 2009, 00:20 | Hey Ramones! I want to play Goonies!!! I hope it will be released soon. I want to see the news of this game in the Ru! You are doing a great work (que pelota soy hehe)!!
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| By Ramones on May 28 2009, 00:51 | Quote:
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Hey Ramones! I want to play Goonies!!! I hope it will be released soon. I want to see the news of this game in the Ru! You are doing a great work (que pelota soy hehe)!!
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xD And I want that you play Goonies... and play Corona Encantada in Karohi booth. And you buy "sprites" from sprite girls. And merchadising of Moai and Alifort. And test Internestor Lite in SD-Snatcher booth. And talk with Walter. Play to J.E.T.P.A.C and Cold Blood. And see new developments of ThePetsMode or buy new hardware from Calamar. And... of course, listen to the smooth melodies of Taburoto. xDDD
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| By RetroTechie on May 28 2009, 00:54 | Quote:
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You can't buy this cartridge because this cartridge is sold ONLY in the Barcelona MSX meeting.
I understand that you want buy this cartridge, but I hope you understand that this product can't be sold out of the fair.
This product have two reasons:
1) AAM makes this cartridge for try that MSX users go to the fair.
2) Money to pay rent of MSX fair place. (Remember free entrance for the users and booths).
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1) Sure you can use it as a 'teaser' to attract visitors. But: an important part of that attraction will be that it's introduced there, the "you saw it here first". More sales afterwards wouldn't undo that.
2) No reason you couldn't keep 'fundraising' outside the event - to pay bills after the event is over, and/or help pay for future event(s).
Summarized: the 2 reasons above are valid reasons, but pretty weak when you think about it. Besides: out of the entire MSX community, *very* few people will be able to travel to Barcelona to visit the event & pick one up in person. Limiting your audience to just those *very* few doesn't help your cause either... 
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| By Walter.MSX on May 28 2009, 01:24 | All these answers are finally reflected only jealousy. It's time to finish now.
There is not only the Internet in the life, to get all that we see.
Konamito (for example), has done 2000 kms by plane to participate in the last meeting of the AAM.
So, move your ass. Or if you can't, support the efforts of your MSX's friends.
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| By Yukio on May 28 2009, 01:27 | Now, I am getting happy !!!
Cool.
Let's see:
First, send *brand new* (STUPID !?) games !
Does floppy disk games count? I am not sure if there are enough time for the cartridges. Printing a label is very easy, just need some special paper and a good printer!
Second, send 500 euros.
Third: send premier combination for EuroMillions!!!
ANTI-PIRACY stuff...
Are you sure that you *REALLY* wanted to make this fair trade?
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 01:43 | At the beginning of this thread, I was not complaining about piracy at all. About MRC warez policies, just look for Muffie in the news and you'll find some links to MSX Historia, where my conversions on the COPYRIGHTED games by Sega, Konami and Parker Brothers can be freely downloaded.
Truly, I support the gray, and even the BLACK area.
BUT, gee Ramones, you're now saying that you will not release the roms? You're making jokes about receiving money for your work?
you ketp saying that you guys are a non profit organization, BUT the only way to get your conversions is by PAYING you? Oh, of course, the profits will be used to pay the rent right? So, it's a non profitable process.
Well, my employer pays me my salary every month. But as all the money is spent in food, education for my kids, taxes and etc... I also work in a non-profit way, right?
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| By Algorythms on May 28 2009, 10:04 | You guys all crack me up Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! Props to Ramones, props to AAMSX, and props to MRC for not shutting this page down after all the stupid remarks through the years. Now SHUT THE HELL UP AND STOP DESTROYING THE SCENE!
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| By DemonSeed on May 28 2009, 12:31 | Quote:
| MRC moderators... Can I think that this is a insult? I have only 3 cm!!!
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Dude, I think yours is still pretty wide then!
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| By Yukio on May 28 2009, 12:47 | Algorythms,
What is wrong with my game about falling stones? It is one of my favorite games ... Sure there could be a lot of sins, after all if the programmers could be sons of the Devil their should not be without sins!
One of the problems is that people is judging without seems the final results.
About the arguments, some persons could be in the wrong way .
In the past, there were some nice and fancy FREEWARE games listed on AAMSX. Maybe their could be a little FAIR after all ... Now, get the money!
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 13:34 | True Yukio.
That's the main problem with the MSX community. From time to time someone thinks it's a good idea to make money out of such a small and experienced community. Gee, most of us are ppl somehow experienced in coding. Launching iFart like apps on Apple store would probably make 10 times more money than those efforts...
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| By Yukio on May 28 2009, 14:38 | Yes, it is possible to take money porting games to mobile platforms. Well, I still like Palm OS and others. Some companies are converting (using software simulators) the old games to play on Mobile Phones, if someone leak their games the value of the Intelectual Property would go low ... After all the market share is based upon interest.
There is a interesting book, Inside Steve's Brain for those that wanted to sell microcomputer stuff. After all it is about Mac's, iPods and iPhones amount others.
Game Software.
Let's take the Nintendo Virtual Console as example, Aleste was ported to the Virtual Console. Illegal copies would damage the revenue of the software houses and console makers!
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| By cidra on May 28 2009, 15:13 | Ramones, first of all, I'm not against your efforts, I said many times that I don't care if you're selling 25 or 25.000 cartridges.
And I don't care if you will release the roms or not.
So don't try to be ironic and sarcastic. You suck at it.
I was talking about the policy of MRC.
wolf_ explained a bit about it.
I agree when it comes to requesting roms. There are hundreds of websites with MSX stuff.
I also agree that all of us (yes, ALL of us, including you, me, muffie, wolf_ and everybody else) have HDs, CDs and DVDs filled with MSX files.
You paid for several MSX products. Good for you. And I don't care either.
I have a MSX t-shirt. I made it myself. And you don't have to care about it as well.
You say you're not a pirate.
Ok, let's be fair then.
Release a cartridge with only the enhanced and "free" games (the MSX2 remakes).
Then MRC can really advertise the fair and your product without "entering the grey area".
Again, I don't care about your product being sold or not.
I don't care about a cartridge containing unlicensed games.
Sell it, be happy.
But don't talk about hypocrisy.
By selling your cartridge, you are making profit. It doesn't matter if it is to pay the rent...
Now, I have to quote this:
"I've since 96 making new games, tools, drivers, donating my games, my routines, my experience, my help, MY LIFE to the MSX community".
You gave your LIFE to the community?
C'mon, man, don't start to be a drama-queen (just like another brazilian enthusiast that muffie dislikes very much).
Are you going to "abandon" the scene too?
And this:
"And you and your country friends say that I'm a devil, a pirate, a bad person".
My "country friends"? Do I detect some kind of racism or "countrism" in here?
Where did I say anything unrespectful about you?
Don't try to be a victim. It's a really sad subterfuge.
And Ramones, one last thing: "cendra" de fiofó é rola...
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| By yum on May 28 2009, 15:31 | 93 reactions... A record already?
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 16:04 | Drama-Queen! That was really funny.
Let's forget about all that Yukio, Cidra, Lionelritchie and Thinlizzy.
They'll never admit anything: neither MRC or Spanish fellows.
We, Brazilians, we all act as a team. That's why we have FIVE world cups and if you sum Spain and Netherlands world titles you get ZERO!
Ramones, sent us all the 25 carts and we lend you a world title. What about that?
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| By ARTRAG on May 28 2009, 16:33 | almost 100 replies
I cannot resist to give my contribution to this record
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 16:45 | Let's talk more about Brazil vs Spain
We have Favelas, Bundas, Samba, and we also treat all Spanish visitors nicely at the airport:
Here's the Brazilian president, with his wife, giving a nice t-shirt to a Spanish visitor.
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| By NapalM on May 28 2009, 18:01 | LOL, when any one sold flash cartridges, saying that work whith konami roms, no one complains!
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| By cidra on May 28 2009, 18:10 | Were they selling the Konami roms also?
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| By Ramones on May 28 2009, 18:19 | Quote:
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That's the main problem with the MSX community. From time to time someone thinks it's a good idea to make money out of such a small and experienced community. Gee, most of us are ppl somehow experienced in coding. Launching iFart like apps on Apple store would probably make 10 times more money than those efforts...
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Bueno, como mi inglés es tan patético como tus argumentos, voy a escribir en castellano. Total, como entiendes lo mismo, yo por lo menos podré expresarme sin impedimentos. Lo siento por la buena gente que no lo entienda, pido perdón por ello, pero el inglés sigue siendo mi asignatura pendiente. Total, lo que te voy a decir seguramente lo piense mucha gente pero por no daros más cancha prefieren ignorar vuestros comentarios. Y eso duele, ¿verdad? El que no te hagan ni caso. Yo ya estoy de vuelta de estas estupideces en los foros, así que no me importa escribirlo. Y no lo hago por mi, si no por toda la gente a la cual estais faltando el respeto. Como mucho me ganaré que me tiren del MRC, y podré vivir con ello. Y con un poco de suerte a lo mejor hasta se cierra el hilo, que sería lo más interesante.
Tu mismo,te estás contradiciendo con tu post. De vez en cuando "alguien" piensa en sacarle las perras a la comunidad MSX. Y luego me dices que sacaría más dinero haciendo aplicaciones para el iPod. Pero, a ver, alma de cántaro, ¿no significa eso PRECISAMENTE que no tengo ninguna intención de sacar ningún dinero?
Si quisiera sacar dinero, tengo los conocimientos y medios a mi alcance para hacer cualquier otro tipo de soft no MSX y sacar dinero PARA MI. O irme a cosechar que empieza la temporada.
¿Te crees entonces que quiero sacar dinero convirtiendo juegos más viejos que la humedad y que le interesan a una comunidad tan reducida? ¿O haciendo nuevo soft y utilidades?
Porque según tu post, ahora ya nadie va a poder sacar ningún juego ya que estaría "sacandole el dinero" a esta pequeña comunidad, de la cual espero no formes mucho tiempo parte.
¿O nos acusas de ladrones? Perdona pero hasta donde yo se no voy poniendo una pistola en la sien a nadie para que compre cosas. Si quisiera robar, robaría a los ricos, que es donde está el dinero. No a trabajadores, como lo son la mayoría de los usuarios de MSX.
Y me vienes diciendo que eres padre y tu trabajo es para pagar impuestos y dar de comer a tu familia.... ¿que virgen tiene que ver eso con todo esto? ¿Ese es tu argumento para poder piratear o no?
Aquí todo el problema es que quieres conseguir esos juegos a toda costa. Y como no puedes conseguirlos, atacas a todo lo que se pone por delante. Y ahora me sales con idioteces futbolísticas y entre paises. ¿Te crees que eso me afecta? Pero sigamos...
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You paid for several MSX products. Good for you. And I don't care either.
I have a MSX t-shirt. I made it myself. And you don't have to care about it as well.
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Y seguramente también tendrás todos los juegos que juegas en MSX originales o, mejor, programados por ti mismo, ¿no? Venga, cuéntame otra.
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You say you're not a pirate.
Ok, let's be fair then.
Release a cartridge with only the enhanced and "free" games (the MSX2 remakes).
Then MRC can really advertise the fair and your product without "entering the grey area".
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Supongo que debido a mi inglés no se entendió el sarcasmo. Desde el primer momento estáis acusando a la AAM de piratas pero a la vez pidiendo las ROMs. Todos sabemos que publicar esas ROMs TAMBIEN es piratería. Y el sarcasmo cuando muffie me preguntó si las iba a dejar fue ese: No, no las dejo porque estaría siendo un pirata. ¿Pillas ahora el sarcasmo?
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But don't talk about hypocrisy.
By selling your cartridge, you are making profit. It doesn't matter if it is to pay the rent...
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En efecto, lo que hacemos es TOTALMENTE ILEGAL. ¿Te he discutido yo eso? Creo que no, en ningún momento te he dicho que eso no sea piratería, pues conozco perfectamente las leyes y se lo que es y no es legal.
Pero, perdona... ¿no es hipocresia que me vengas con la ley en la mano y me PIDAS las roms? ¿No hipocresia criticar este cartucho cuando seguro que tienes tu casa llenita de cosas ilegales? Y más cuando realmente lo único que quieres son las Roms.
Yo te pregunto, como ya os pregunté: ¿por qué este revuelo contra este cartucho cuando durante toda la epoca amateur MSXera han habido, hay y habrán cosas por el estilo? ¿por qué te cebas contra algo que *siendo ilegal* no busca benefiio alguno salvo poder organizar Rus y no te cebas contra gente que vende cosas para su propio beneficio? Se coherente, o lo haces con todos o no lo hagas.
Además estás critiando algo que TODAVÍA NO SE HA HECHO. Es decir ya juzgas algo que no se ha hecho y nos acusas de delincuentes. Atencíón que aquí tenemos a "la policia del pensamiento".
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You gave your LIFE to the community?
C'mon, man, don't start to be a drama-queen (just like another brazilian enthusiast that muffie dislikes very much).
Are you going to "abandon" the scene too?
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Pues hombre, yo por lo menos puedo enumerarte ciento y un cosas que he hecho por esta comunidad, fíjate que ironía que todas están disponibles en internet y gratuitas. ¿Que has hecho tú?
¿Drama? No, sencillamente buscaba un poco de drama para ver si así más personas os decían lo que os tenían que haber dicho desde el primer momento.
¿Abandonar? ¿A estas alturas? Ni de coña. Las personas como tú son las que me dan energías para levantarme cada día y seguir haciendo cosas MSX, y más sabiendo, ahora, que te fastidiará.
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And this:
"And you and your country friends say that I'm a devil, a pirate, a bad person".
My "country friends"? Do I detect some kind of racism or "countrism" in here?
Where did I say anything unrespectful about you?
Don't try to be a victim. It's a really sad subterfuge.
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Si, soy racista. Odio a los ignorantes. Creo que eso me convierte en racista.
Nene, yo creo en las personas, no en los países. Un país no es nada, nada lo justifica excepto unas lineas pintadas en un papel. Aquí en "mi" pais hay gente buena y gente mala, ignorantes y personas inteligentes. Y en el tuyo también. Y lee los primeros post, anda, bonico del to. Hasta donde yo se el primer ataque "racista" fue de muffie ya que digo que todos los españoles son unos egocéntricos. Pero bueno, tienes razón, a ese comentario no tendría que hacerle caso, pues me rebaja a su altura. (De hecho ni le hice ni le haré caso).
Al final, para resumir, fijaros que hemos conseguido. Desviar la atención de lo realmente importante y que parece que os importa bien poco, que es la Reunión. Hay 14 expositores que han perdido sus horas por seguir creando soft, hard y todo tipo de cosas para el MSX. Otras tantas que se están dejando los cuernos para que las reuniones entre usuarios no desaparezcan. Y muchos usuarios que seguro que acudirán a la reunión y que ya por anticipado habría que aplaudirles.
Y vosotros, vuelta la borrica al trigo con temitas legales e ilegales. Desde luego habéis demostrado una falta de respeto bastante grande para con toda esta gente. Gente gracias a la cual el MSX sigue vivo o por lo menos colea. Gracias a personas como vosotros que detrás de un nick y desde cómodo salón solo criticáis lo que hacen otros sacándole punta a todo SIN APORTAR NADA DE NADA (ya que criticas por lo menos aporta soluciones) el MSX estaría bastante muerto. ¿Os doy las gracias o me arrodillo ante vosotros?
Y, fijate que gracioso todo, cuando tengo desde hace DIAS todas las Roms sueltas y preparadas para ser liberadas, incluso una que NO va en la recopilación (una versión de La Abadía del Crimen MSX1 que carga y graba en la flash, ya que la versión MSX1 del cartucho es la original sin tocar nada (carga y graba en cassete), solo la de MSX2 carga y graba en flash).
Ahora dirás... ¿y por qué no lo has hecho antes y con las otras Roms? Pues ... tiene guasa pero... es que NADIE las ha pedido. La gente, inteligente, quiere los cartuchos, no las Roms sueltas, porque sabe que así apoya a que se sigan organizando Reuniones.
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And Ramones, one last thing: "cendra" de fiofó é rola...
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Aquí si que te tengo que pedir yo perdón. Las prisas no son buenas escribiendo.
Una última cosa también: "iros a zurrir mierdas con un látigo".
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| By Huey on May 28 2009, 18:21 | 100 reactions
Can we now stop stirring the sh1t up? Can't you guys see that there are some people at work here who just enyoing stirring things up?
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| By cax on May 28 2009, 18:23 | 101
I was here too
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| By cidra on May 28 2009, 18:43 | Ramones, I'm beginning to think that is not about you having problems writing in english.
You have problems reading and understanding what I wrote.
When did I ask for any roms in this discussion?
Don't try to "put words in my mouth".
And don't try to hide behind your language.
And just to be sure: yes, I have a great number of original MSX software and hardware. And I also have a huge collection of MSX roms and emulators.
What's wrong with that? As I said, you don't have to care about it.
Quoting the spanish wisdom:
"Las personas como tú son las que me dan energías para levantarme cada día y seguir haciendo cosas MSX".
Well, all I have to say then is: you're welcome.
You said it yourself: you have knowledge that you're selling "illegal" product.
You said it:
"En efecto, lo que hacemos es TOTALMENTE ILEGAL".
Ok, we all knew that from start.
But again, I was talking about the MRC policy on posting news of it.
Simple as that.
I didn't criticize your product, I was curious about the MRC policy on this matter.
So don't start with the hypocrisy stuff again.
Again, here I am repeating:
I don't care if you sell this products.
Sell it, be happy, have fun.
Can't you understand english at all?
Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore.
I already lost the 100º post...
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| By SapphiRe on May 28 2009, 18:43 | damm... 103... Huey, you won!!
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| By Huey on May 28 2009, 18:47 | Did I win a 'MSX Compilation Vol. 2'?
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| By l1nux1n on May 28 2009, 18:56 | muffie, algun español te ha robado dinero o una novia? Tanto odio a los españoles por no poder conseguir un cartucho? no crees que es una reaccion un poco infantil?
Como puedes hablar de racismo en una europa donde hay zonas donde el 30% son extranjeros!?
Lo mas seguro que yo asista a la RU y es probable que no pueda conseguir el cartucho, pero no por eso me voy a poner a llorar...
Anda, vete a odiar a Alonso, al fufbol español o compras una bandera y la quemas si asi te sientes mejor, que el mundo seguira girando te guste o no.
Que lastima que en mundo haya malas personas como tu.
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| By Rikusu on May 28 2009, 19:27 | Mmmh... There's one thing I felt I had to say after reading this... thing. Every time there's talk about copyrights, people start saying that a copyright violation doesn't HARM the copyright proprietor, or that a company doesn't lose money or something. But that's not the point, that's not what copyrights mean to do. The copyright is the simple and universal right (at least in free countries ) to decide what happens with what you created YOURSELF. Nobody else has that right. You made it, you decide. That's the basic idea. Therefore, violating a copyright can't be justified by saying that nobody loses money or something; the point is that the violator uses the creation of somebody else to fullfil his own needs (be it to make money or to fullfil the urge to help others by giving it to them for free), without GIVING the creator anything in return. It's simply a right one doesn't have; it's exclusive to the creator. In principle, of course - because copyright law is complex matter and there are so many (often case specific) things that make this easy principle pretty complicated. I just wanted to point out the essence of copyright, as it seems to be often misunderstood. And no, I'm not adding anything else to this 'discussion'
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 19:29 | @Ramones: I'm still reading your long post, but plz, be aware that Muffie is one person. Cidra is another, Yukio is another, LionelRitchie is another and etc... Sometimes (even in Spanish) you seem to mix our opinions all together. I'll try to respond to that later with care, ok?
@l1nux1n: No, I don't hate Spanish ppl at all. As I said, my mom was born in Europe and my father graduated in Spain.
I don't hate Alonso. I actually like his driving skills. Too bad he left McLaren on 2008.
About football, I'm not a huge fan, I was just being ironic.
- Never lost a girlfriend to a Spanish! As LionelRitchie says, I'm 22cm. I could only loose to some African!
- I already ceased my argumentation about the cart. In the future, I'll try to talk with some Brazilians so we can create an unique cart like that, but, of course, it will only be available at MSX Jaú fair.
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| By cidra on May 28 2009, 19:36 | muffie said:
"I'll try to talk with some Brazilians so we can create an unique cart like that, but, of course, it will only be available at MSX Jaú fair."
Or only for the "Brazilian League Anti MSX Piracy"...
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 19:55 | @cidra: shoot me an e-mail: muffie@lavabit.com
*PS* I just sent an e-mail to msxbr-l too.
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| By Oscar on May 28 2009, 20:27 | What a waste of time! Your reactions are like a angry child with no toy
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| By guantxip on May 28 2009, 20:28 | ¿Qué diría Colecovision de Montezuma's Revenge?
¿Que diría Konami de Manbow 2 o Knightmare Gold?
¡Dejaos de gilipolleces!
El pirata de verdad es el que hace algo y vive del cuento toda su vida por culpa de las leyes de derechos de autor. Lo siento Ultimate pero viendo el remake tendríais que iros con el rabo entre las piernas porque lo han bordao, no como ellos que nos vendieron la versión spectrum y encima le vendieron a Jaleco el juego.
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 20:30 | @guantxip: I know it's huge, but try to read all the reactions
Quote:
| By muffie on May 28 2009, 01:43
At the beginning of this thread, I was not complaining about piracy at all. About MRC warez policies, just look for Muffie in the news and you'll find some links to MSX Historia, where my conversions on the COPYRIGHTED games by Sega, Konami and Parker Brothers can be freely downloaded. Truly, I support the gray, and even the BLACK area.
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| By Yukio on May 28 2009, 20:54 | Quote:
| "What a waste of time! Your reactions are like a angry child with no toy"
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Toy? We have toys, in fact Brazil is one of the Top Ten countries (fifth place in size and population) in IT value. If you are writting about games, we have them too ... Maybe not like the ones on Spain, but we already got some software over here (in the Past, Brazil was 7º market place), U.S.A was first and Japan second !!!
The isometric games could be changed to reflect the use of regional characters and could use new levels, imagine a robot or a cat with the isometric perspective ...
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| By Ramones on May 28 2009, 21:02 | Quote:
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muffie said:
"I'll try to talk with some Brazilians so we can create an unique cart like that, but, of course, it will only be available at MSX Jaú fair."
Or only for the "Brazilian League Anti MSX Piracy"...
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Ains... así que despues de tanto jaleo, al final queréis hacer lo mismo. ¿No os parece entonces que los 100 mensajes hablando de lo que es legal o no están de más? Esto es para mear y no echar gota.
Vamos a intentar por un momento ser adultos. A ver si lo podemos conseguir, ¿ok? Y de paso cerramos el hilo con algo bueno.
¿Queréis intentar hacer lo mismo para la MSX Jaú? FANTASTICO!! Es una excelente iniciativa y no solo es que me guste si no que os doy toda mi ayuda y mi apoyo.
¿No sería ahora el momento, creo, para que intentásemos ayudarnos entre organizadores? Podemos desviar este hilo a privado y hablarlo, si quereis. Yo os puedo proporcionar todo el material (todas las ROMS) e incluso hacer algo *especial* que solo se venda en MSX Jaú. ¿Qué os parece la idea? Una ROM especial solo para Brasileños que acudan a MSX Jaú. Y también la forma de hacer los cartuchos. Pero repito, todo esto ya por privado y de buenas maneras. Sin enfados, sin hipocresia...
Lo digo de todo corazón. Haré lo que esté en mi mano para ayudaros a atraer a gente a MSX Jaú.
¿Aceptais el trato y olvidamos los otros 100 mensajes?
Seguro que toda la comunidad estará agradecida que de algo tan "malo" salga algo tan "bueno".
Este es mi mail privado: ramones arroba msxkralizec punto net
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| By cidra on May 28 2009, 21:12 | guantxip said:
"El pirata de verdad es el que hace algo y vive del cuento toda su vida por culpa de las leyes de derechos de autor".
So, basically, if someone records "Yesterday", then Paul McCartney should be te one paying for it?
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| By cidra on May 28 2009, 21:17 | Ramones, for the last time:
I don't care.
I never had any issue with your product, your work, your effort.
I'm not disappointed by not being able to buy your cartridge.
I don't care if you will release the roms or not.
Sell your stuff. Have fun.
May the fair accomplish all its goals.
My question was about MRC policy over this related subject.
'Nuff said...
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| By Yukio on May 28 2009, 21:18 | It is all very interesting, but I have some doubts ... Is you really against my poor like game (the one about falling drops of water, a variation of the falling stones)? Maybe some persons simple do not like their own practices.
The MSX Compilation Vol. 2 is a great compilation , unfortunately almost all games are just pirate copies of unlicensed games . Some Software Houses still cares about the copyright of the titles, after all it was their intelectual property.
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| By dvik on May 28 2009, 21:26 | Quote:
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My question was about MRC policy over this related subject.
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I think wolf_ answered this about 50 posts ago. The answer is simple:
The news value is much greater than the piracy issue
Its very simple. A new MSX cartridge with improved versions of old games is pretty big news in a scene that don't see much new stuff. I'm very happy wolf_ treated this news on the lighter side of gray so we all got to know about it.
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| By wolf_ on May 28 2009, 21:53 | It was Ivan who wrote the news however (tho I supervised the writing of it a bit )
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| By usuario_msx2 on May 28 2009, 22:25 | Afortunadamente hay gente que hace cosas que serán éticas o no, (a ver quién es el guapo que las judga) a nivel de hard y soft en todo el mundo y eso es lo que precisamente mantiene el MSX vivo, porque se hacen.
Para la gente que critica y no hace nada (que se de por aludido a quien corresponda): menos samba y mais traballar
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| By wolf_ on May 28 2009, 22:26 | To all ppl writing in non-English: let's stick to English, or continue in the appropriate forum. Tnx.
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| By muffie on May 28 2009, 23:17 | Quote:
| Afortunadamente hay gente que hace cosas que serán éticas o no, (a ver quién es el guapo que las judga) a nivel de hard y soft en todo el mundo y eso es lo que precisamente mantiene el MSX vivo, porque se hacen. Para la gente que critica y no hace nada (que se de por aludido a quien corresponda): menos samba y mais traballar
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So, "hace" your work in order to benefit the whole community. Showing something to everyone, but preventing 99% to get it is sadism. Not to mention it's based on copyrighted content.
At least my conversions were free... I did that actually while dancing Samba!
- "tchá, tchá,tchá..."
Now, I must go. I need to continue to dance Samba... Because you know: Brazil is Party/Samba all the time...
*PS* Less Flamenco, more work, ya?
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| By Jorito on May 28 2009, 23:37 | Let me also place a useless remark here, just for the heck of it.
Jay, #123
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| By thinlizzy on May 29 2009, 01:50 | Quote:
| The news value is much greater than the piracy issue
Its very simple. A new MSX cartridge with improved versions of old games is pretty big news in a scene that don't see much new stuff. I'm very happy wolf_ treated this news on the lighter side of gray so we all got to know about it
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a such restricted product does not seem big news for me 
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| By NapalM on May 29 2009, 18:55 | >>By NapalM on May 28 2009, 18:01
>>LOL, when any one sold flash cartridges, saying that work whith konami roms, no one complains!
>By cidra on May 28 2009, 18:10
>Were they selling the Konami roms also?
Don't be demagogue, hardware like flash roms, nowind, etc, or software that can run roms or DSK like runit, loadrom, rMSX, etc, are think and
specifically prepared for work whith comercial games ( breaking protections if it necesary ), for example, konami games must be pathet for running.
When the people talk about those products, no one complains.
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| By hap on May 29 2009, 19:16 | I hardly ever used my Nowind or Mega Flash ROM SCC cart for retrogaming purposes. They're great development tools, don't try to categorize those as piracy products.
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| By NapalM on May 29 2009, 19:32 | we know the others aplications. but is a minority.
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| By cidra on May 29 2009, 20:22 | You know, I was going to let that one pass, but here we go again:
DVD-Players also are prepared to work with many types of discs, including "pirate" copies on DVD-R, CD-R and so on.
But are those pirate DVD-Rs and CD-Rs sold with the DVD-Players?
Demagogue?
No, sir.
And you?
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| By dvik on May 29 2009, 20:50 | I only use my FlashRoms and Nowind for development, but the main use is probably for playing games.
But I really don't understand this whole copyright discussion. I just bought a really nice flash cart for my ColecoVision: Atarimax ColecoVision 128-in-1 Flash MultiCart
It has a great interface with a PC to program it easily and they even link to sites where to get roms (sites we all know about so nothing new). Of course they don't ship with roms but they don't have this weird double standard and hypocracy that the MSX scene seem to have.
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| By dvik on May 29 2009, 21:25 | Well, make that 4th
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| By sunrise on May 30 2009, 07:04 | Reading all this , well it's all about the copyrights. Someone thought about the costs. Let me take Manbow2 as example
A PCB desgin costs 10 euro ,package box labels 4 euro 20. Scc chip 9 euro flash 5 , 4 euro = 27 euro 30 cents
So 20cents for effort of soldering and if you take e.g. soldering a 8MB well alot of work also
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| By SaebaMSX on May 30 2009, 20:11 | I just want to say that I am very happy with all I got in this meeting. Unfortunately no carts were for sale after the meeting (sold out, yeah!) and I could no buy anything for NYYRIKKI as I wanted to do (sorry man!).
- I got MSX Compilation Vol 2 which is great and looks very nice close to MSX Compilation Vol 1 in my desk.
- I got Cold Blood which is a something like... let pacman meet Kojima. Nice concept!
- I got JETPAC which is the best game by far by Imanok (thanks man! I'm gonna show you that I can bet many levels! )
- I got KnightLore version by Retroworks (which was also included in the MSX Compilation Vol 2) and just for getting the box it was f*ckin' nice!
I've got x2 of each one of them (my brother visited the fair too) and I just want to ask for apologies to all people who could not get it even being there.
So I've spent many money in MSX goodies this time (not only in carts) and I am happy about it. I just wanted to share it with you. This was amazing to be able to buy so much new stuff @ the meeting.
Thanks to all people who could do this possible. Seems like MSX is not so dead after all! 
Regards and peace!
By the way, nice to see you posting here, Dan! Long time no see!
PS: And it was great to have a Collectors' Disc Fair so close as I could get many discs too. Up the Irons!
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| By MäSäXi on May 31 2009, 21:50 | AAMSX: I know this is a bit late... or solderingly late...
But I just want to mention one isometric MSX game which was forgot from this cartridge:
MOLECULE MAN, by Mastertronic.
It would be a nice game, but radiation kills you too fast.
And even better, some "clever" idiot said to another "clever" idiot:
Idiot 1: "So you are converting Molecule Man to MSX?"
Idiot 2: "Yes."
Idiot 1: "I saw that Spectrum original has nice map editor."
Idiot 2: "So what?"
Idiot 1: "What about completely deleting that nice map editor from MSX conversion?"
Idiot 2: "GREAT IDEA! I´ll trash it immediately!"
Idiot 1: "Cool!"
Idiot 3: "Hey, is that MSX Molecule Man ready?"
Idiot 2: "Yes!"
Idiot 3: "Well done! We´ll publish it soon!"
Idiot 2 whispers to Idiot 1: "Should we tell him that I deleted map editor?"
Idiot 1 whispers back: "Who cares!?"
Idiot 2: "COOL!"
If someone can prove that my little dialog wasn´t historically correct, please tell me another story why the heck someone takes away best parts of Spectrum games when converting them to MSX?
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| By [D-Tail] on May 31 2009, 22:03 | Quote:
| Up the Irons!
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Amen to that ^_^
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| By Ramones on June 01 2009, 02:03 | Quote:
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AAMSX: I know this is a bit late... or solderingly late...
But I just want to mention one isometric MSX game which was forgot from this cartridge:
MOLECULE MAN, by Mastertronic.
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Yes... bit late. But the problem is the size of cart. 1024k - 64k to save/load state in Abadía del Crimen - 8k for the menu = 952k.
This is the size of all Roms in the cart. All roms contains original loadscreen and MSX2 versions new load screen in Screen 8. All data is compressed:
155648 ABADIA2.ROM
90112 ABADIA.ROM
57344 ALIEN82.ROM
32768 ALIEN8.ROM
65536 BATMAN.ROM
49152 BUBBLER.ROM
40960 CID.ROM
40960 GUNFRIGHT.ROM
65536 HOH.ROM
73728 KLORE2.ROM
40960 KLORE.ROM
81920 MADMIX2.ROM
32768 MARTIANO.ROM
40960 NIGHTSHADE.ROM
40960 PENTAGRAM.ROM
65536 ZONA0.ROM
974848 total
0 free bytes. Molecule Man, Jet bomber... There are other Isometric Games... but isn't possible.
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| By RetroTechie on June 01 2009, 02:36 | Quote:
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(..) please tell me another story why the heck someone takes away best parts of Spectrum games when converting them to MSX?
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Idiot manager: "Hey dude, I found this great Spectrum game that doesn't have an MSX version yet. Can you make it?"
Idiot programmer: "Sure, why not?"
Idiot manager: "Just one problem: we want to get it out by Christmas, that's just five weeks from now. And the other guys are working on something else, so you'd have to do it alone."
Idiot programmer: "Hmmm... I don't know the MSX system that well, just the Spectrum."
Idiot manager: "Well, just make it resemble the Spectrum version, okay?"
Idiot programmer: "I'll do that. But I don't know if I'll have time to put in all those features of the Spectrum version"
Idiot manager: "Well, just make it play sort of the same as the Spectrum version, okay? Then we'll release whatever we have when Christmas season comes. I'm sure the fans will love it (and buy it)."
Idiot programmer: "Cool... see you later!"
.
.
(Christmas season comes)
.
.
Idiot buyer: "Can I buy that game already? I heard the conversion isn't that good, some features are missing, and there's some odd bugs in it, but hey... I love the Spectrum version so much, and my dad got me an MSX last week."
Smart sales rep: "Here it is... That'll be $29,95 then!"
Idiot buyer: "Cool.... I love it!"
Idiot manager: "Man, these babies are selling like hotcakes! Let's do another one!"
(replace MSX and Spectrum with any 2 platforms of choice)
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| By MäSäXi on June 01 2009, 07:28 | This Idiot Buyer thanks retrotechie for that historical real life conversation.
Maybe we should open new thread to this, so all of us who frustrated in the eighties by buying bad spectrum ports can lighten their hearts now 20-25 years later!
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