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| | Tilburg 2005 - Change of plans |
| | Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 14:31 Submitted by: snout Topic: Fairs & Meetings | | CGV Tilburg have announced their special computer meeting of the year will be held on April 23rd, 2005. Usually this would be a reason for all (well, at least all Dutch) MSX users to cheer and look forward to a pleasant meeting with many MSX standholders, new hardware, software and demonstrations of new projects. This year, things seem to have changed quite a bit, though. The announcement of the 2005 meeting no longer mentions the meeting to be the 'largest MSX fair in the world', neither does it look like there will be any standholders at all. With MRC being a regular standholder at the past editions of the fairs, we had to find out about the announcement of the 2005 meeting ourselves.
We decided to contact the CGV by phone, who were surprised we had found out about the announcement in the first place, as they deliberately did not inform standholders of former CGV fairs about it. After the previous 2 editions of Tilburg, they had received several comments from within the community, making them wonder why they even bothered to continue the fair as it was. They decided to drop the international part of the meeting and turned the annual CGV fair in a regular CGV meeting, with this exception that the meeting would be open to anyone who'd like to visit the meeting. With this, the attention completely shifts to potential CGV members living in the vicinity of Tilburg, usually not active within the MSX community at all, focusing on 'building networks, photo-editing, getting to know the internet, word processors and database tools'
This change of direction clearly shows what others had already felt for the past 2 years: The CGV, who once organized truly legendary MSX fairs in Tilburg, have completely lost their interest in MSX. This move highly contradicts with the huge increase of activity of the MSX community we have seen in the same 2 years that have passed and the willingness of organizations like Sunrise and the MRC to see if they could help out on improving the MSX part of the CGV fairs. By this decision, an era of annual MSX fairs in Tilburg has come to an end. Luckily the MSX fairs in Oss (usually held in January) and Bussum (usually held in September) still breathe the MSX spirit and are more than worth paying a visit to.
Relevant link: CGV Tilburg |
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| By tfh on January 30 2005, 14:36 | Well... It might be a bit harsh, but I can't blame them.
After the fairs the last two years, people were only begin very negative about the fair in Tilburg, and making bad remarks towards CGV.
Instead of trying to do something about it, contacting CGV to see how they could make things better... Nah.. complaining was easier, and suits the Dutch way the best.
Anyway, on the positive side: This might make other MSX-only Meetings/fair more interesting & popular.
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| By snout on January 30 2005, 14:45 | TFH - Others did try to help the CGV out. In fact, in 2003 there was an initiative of practically all stand holders of the 2003 fair to see if and how the 2004 fair could be improved. CGV did not want to know anything about the suggestions or co-operation in any form whatsoever. Indeed, I can (more and more) understand that people quit their activities because they (seem to) get thrown mud in the face all the time, but in this case it was the MSX community that took a very constructive approach. I don't think anyone's to blame but the CGV on this one.
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| By Latok on January 30 2005, 14:50 | CGV lost connection with the MSX scene quite some years ago already. I'm actually glad it's all spoken out now. And of course, CGV doesn't feel any blame. Neither does the MSX scene. So be it.
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| By tfh on January 30 2005, 14:57 | @Snout: OK, I didn't know that, but still..
If I was a member of CVG, and I had been reading the comments here on MRC after the fairs, I wouldn't be bothered for a cooperation either.
Anyway, This is THE moment to try to set up another MSX-Fair. The biggest MSX Groups/organisations should work together on this (MRC, Sunrise, Bazix, TNI and a bunch of others...).
Also try to get some media attention, just like the C64-CGG did last year and be prepaired for a lot of visitors.
What about the RAI-buildings? 
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| By snout on January 30 2005, 15:04 | If you want an MSX fair in the RAI-buildings you'd better start donating right now ^_^
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| By mars2000you on January 30 2005, 15:05 | >Anyway, This is THE moment to try to set up another MSX-Fair. The biggest >MSX Groups/organisations should work together on this (MRC, Sunrise, Bazix, >TNI and a bunch of others...).
That's a good idea but I must here precise that all links between TNI and MRC are now deeply broken. I will not here (again) explain how this situation has happened, but you must understand that it will not make the things easy. In my opinion, only a third party (different from TNI and MRC) can organize a new MSX fair in replacement of the Tilburg fair
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| By tfh on January 30 2005, 15:16 | @Mars200You:
Wel, that does not have to be that way...
Fact is that it's mainly GuyveR800 & Snout (IIRC) that seem to have some problems at the moment. But shouldn't it be possible to select 2 other persons from both groups to do the talking?
For something as important as THE msx-fair, it should be possible for all parties to but the personal differences aside, and to at least proceed with this in a professional manner. This should be able by keeping the persons away from each other with the biggest issues between them.
TNI is more then only GuyveR800, and MRC/bazix is more then only Snout.
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| By Latok on January 30 2005, 15:29 | I truly believe there has to come an alternative for the Tilburg fair.
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| By mars2000you on January 30 2005, 15:34 | >TNI is more then only GuyveR800, and MRC/bazix is more then only Snout.
That's right, but you must also notice two main things :
- the decision to ban GuyveR800 on a permanent is a collective MRC decision, not a personal decision of Snout
- the decision to break all links between TNI and MRC/Bazix is a collective TNI decision, not a personal decision of GuyveR800
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| By wolf_ on January 30 2005, 15:53 | /me whispers 'devcon'
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| By tfh on January 30 2005, 15:59 | @mars2000you
Instead of looking at the all the possible problems on the road, you can also try to figure out a way to manouvre arond them.
No all people within TNI have problems with all people within MRC. There should be a way.. Of not, then both MRC and TNI would show how childish they in fact are, and I cannot believe this is true.
As you know, GuyveR800 and I have our problems as well. But for some reason, we can still co-exist on msxposse.com. Hell! We can even "talk" with eachother there, as long as we stay away from certain subjects.
Please, stop stating the problems everytime, but start thinking about solutions to the problem!
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| By wolf_ on January 30 2005, 16:03 | ..amazing how:
</tilburg>
results in:
<MRC_vs_Guyver800>
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| By snout on January 30 2005, 16:06 | Indeed, I think everybody would be pleased to see an alternative to the Tilburg fair. No matter who is going to organize a potential replacement, MRC will cover the news on the frontpage and if we think we can (and/or are asked to) help out in any way to make it a succes and thus an ideal replacement for Tilburg we most certainly will. If we want to make it happen, we must all work together. There's no point in 5 different organizations organizing 5 different Tilburg replacements now, is there?
Devcon was really cool, but until now it has been a completely different approach than other MSX fairs. It doesn't feel like a replacement to me, but I'd love to see a Devcon - Spring '05 in the near future
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| By tfh on January 30 2005, 16:08 | @Snout (and others)
How about an MSX weekend, in which to combine the fair (Saturday), the devcon (extended over 2 days, Saturday and Sunday), combined with the MSX-Marathon?
One big MSX-happening 
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| By Latok on January 30 2005, 16:10 | I wouldn't mind having 2 Bussum fairs in one year
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| By wolf_ on January 30 2005, 16:29 | TFH, if devcon is going to be held in the same cafe again, then the sunday is not an option ..
Legacy will ask the cafe owner for options on saturdays in march .. For potential fair-thingies DEVcon in that cafe has 2 disadvantages:
- not close to a trainstation (tho one could drive it by car in 5 mins to pick someone who comes by train)
- not very much parking @ the cafe, there's little more over the bridge if you can walk for a minute or two.. but that parking lot is .. well, dunno, 10..15, of which a number naturally already in use since there's a supermarket there.
On the whole -but it was discussed before- something around Utrecht/Amersfoort or even more to the north would be a strategic place for a new fair..
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| By Abi on January 30 2005, 18:37 | mm funny,
I was looking for a good location nearby Harderwijk las Saterday, i felt that Tilburg was not intressted in MSX as they were in the past.
I hope that i can succeed for a good location, Hardwerwijk is imo a good location for many people.
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| By wolf_ on January 30 2005, 18:40 | Could be... but regarding trains: Amersfoort or Zwolle would be better then as they're intercity-stations, Harderwijk is only a stoptrain-station. Also A'foort or Zwolle (or any other major city) is better accesable for the various directions.
Anyhoo, that's only a detail ^_^
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| By Sylvester on January 30 2005, 23:25 | Vlissingen has an intercity station But i guess it's too far for most people )
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| By ro on January 31 2005, 09:38 | So now it has come down to the moment where both biggest fairs (dutch) completely fanished into history. I'm talking 'bout Zandvoort en Tilburg fairs. I've been visiting them since the beginnings. Seen the rise but also the fall..
now I feel empty and shallow again.
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| By Abi on January 31 2005, 12:14 | I always will keep the good memories in mind.
I had always so much fun at the Tilburg fairs.
On the way to it, my heart beats faster and faster, waiting for minimum a hour for the door and spoke with people and the fair itself was always awesome.
/me feel sad also
Hope we can that feeling back again..........
I want to thank CGV Tilburg for all those years that make me as i am now!!
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| By Latok on January 31 2005, 12:30 | It's incredible to read that the MSX fair in Tilburg has had the same impact on many people. It was an absolute highlight of the year, I was psyched up for it for many weeks already and it was never a let down....It was heaven on earth
And indeed, it defined me as a person as well.......
*snif*
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| By MeitsNearDark on January 31 2005, 16:19 | @ abi: Lucky me with my standholderticket 
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| By Sonic_aka_T on January 31 2005, 17:12 | Should we send them some emails, kindly requesting that they please reconsider? Telling them we understand there are always people that like to give negative feedback, but that the fair was always very much appreciated and a big part of MSX computing for all of us?
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| By snout on January 31 2005, 19:14 | If it weren't for the legendary MSX fairs in Tilburg and Zandvoort, my life would not have been the same. Period. However, I'm afraid it's far too late to try and persuade the CGV from reconsidering their decision. Ever since ~1998 they have been losing touch with MSX and the MSX community more and more. Other groups often offered their help, which was -afaik- always decline. A last attempt at improving things was made ~2 years ago when all standholders of the 2003 edition of Tilburg contacted the CGV about their concerns which have now become harsh reality.
I personally think it's time to look ahead instead of backwards and to get a new MSX fair organized by people who do know what MSX anno 2005 is all about.
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| By Abi on January 31 2005, 20:04 | @Meits: I have here also 3 Standholdercards of Tilburg (1993, 1994 and 1995) when i only look at them i remember almost the whole day 
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