Imagine we do the job for a real MSX, why would i waste my time in choosing to put great effort in composing songs, sounds and stuffs on A REAL MSX ?

Why would i spend month of my life working on a crappy msx tracker (in comparison with actual pc soft) for -FEW- guys that still has a dusty msx in there closet...
And what if most of these people that still have an MSX realize their MSX isn't an MSX 2 ? Or haven't Enough Memory or other things ?
Statistics about people still having a MSX 2 in WORKING STATE they can IMMEDIATELY POWER ON are very very very poor...
Enven Guyver800 hasn't an MSX ready to work !

To be able to do my part of the Job i should have all the MSX audio equipement or buy it (Midi Keyboard, Music Module, Moonsound, SCC Cart etc...). Could you tell me please how many € i'll have to spend for those ?

Now imagine we do the job for a real TurboR, hey lets add moonsound and V9000 GFX or whatever, how many people on the earth will be able to play it ? Where is that supermaket where they sell cheap TurboR + GFX and moodsound ?

My idea is not allowing the MSX to revive through a game, because sadly the MSX is dead... There are only demos, little games and stuffs like that actualy making their way to the MSX...

Actualy by choosing to make it on a PC we all follow a more easy, cheap and convenient path... PC Tools are great, mostly free, very accurate and very convenient...
We all have a life, avoiding doubling the devello time by choosing to do it on PC is very wise also...

Of course results on a PC are way more color full, the sound restrictions for a composer are way more cool... (RedBook audio, Mp3, Ogg... look at Roadfighter)

But THE MOST IMPORTANT : IF you do the game on PC, your game can hit potentialy a lot more people than on any other comps/consoles ... If it is realy good you can even use it to promote your skills...

Imagine we devello the game for MSX 2 / TR ! The game will be played on an emulator by 99% of people, so it's absolutely not worth it... i won't loose my time... and most of people won't...

If you've plenty of free time, money and MSX Component please do MSX games ! I will always welcome them...

To start a project that could become real, let's NOT start it on MSX or it will be another project that won't go very far...

Another very important thing :

In the emu scene / old comp & console scene there are often ppl saying 3d sux and that sort of thing... but that's only their point of vue !
When you go out of these 'oldies' and 'vintage gaming' scene most of people like 3d and enjoy it as much as 2d (or even more)...
We got SO USED to play so many 2d games that i can understand ppl that aren't able to go to the next gaming step...
3D Doesn't kill games ! It simply doesn't fit you tastes... That's not the same thing !
I bought my first MSX in 1984 and while i am a old school gamer, i enjoy actualy many 3d games a lot ! There are many 3d sequels to 2d games i even enjoyed more than the old 2d one...

By the way statisticaly there aren't less good games / year than in 80 to 90 !!! There are only MORE games, so that means MORE BAD ONES... But the amount of good games remains the same it always used to be...

That's all for today, i asked not to argue about all of this in my previous post, but seems it can't be avoided...
Is it a good thing since it freezes potential projects in they aren't for msx ?
Now ppl that have read the posts could be even afraid of posting threads about interesting projects for MSX revival on PC.

Allowing a game to revive on PC is a way spread accurately its essence and to let people know or remember what the MSX spirit realy was !

CHEERS to all of you msx freaks

hmmm, still think 3d sucks, still think the game should be released for MSX 2/128 RAM kb/128 kb VRAM / MSX-Stereo / MoonSound....
But hey, that's just me....

The reasons you'd want to develop a game for MSX is because it's a lot more fun (and a lot more rewarding) to develop a game for a system that has a lot of limitations. There's no art in creating a game on a PC. If things work too slow, just throw in a couple of extra hundreds of MHz-es and you're set.

If MSX were truly dead this website would not have existed. At least it would not be growing as excessively as it's been doing since 1999. Of course it's cool to say "Hey, MSX is dead. Why bother creating new software for it". But it's simply not true. The fact that a lot of people have returned to MSX by using emulation doesn't change a bit of that.

Instead of buying all the equipment you're talking about (and I consider a MIDI keyboard to be quite useless on MSX) you could even consider starting development using accurate emulators like NLMSX or openMSX. Once you start working in a limited music tracker like Moonblaster or - even worse - Musica you'll soon find out how cool it is to sqeeze massive sound out of a few channels and instruments. Same goes for graphics (visualize things on 'low' resolutions with only 16 colors and a small amount of sprites) and coding (how the hell are we going to make things work on 3.5MHz).

To me, developing on an MSX is rewarding, fun, and educative at the same time. Developing on the PC is a pain in the ass.

Since you're specifically mention remakes here, isn't the real reason behind all this that you're afraid an MSX developing team isn't capable of making an MSX2 (or turboR, or even turboR/GFX9000) remake of a game that actually looks, feels and sounds better than its MSX1 original?

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Statistics about people still having a MSX 2 in WORKING STATE they can IMMEDIATELY POWER ON are very very very poor...

I wonder where you got those statistics.

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Could you tell me please how many € i'll have to spend for those ?

Pocketchange compared to the PC, Korg Triton and Roland JV-1080 you already own.

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how many people on the earth will be able to play it?

How many people will actually play and like your PC remake? A PC remake of an MSX game needs te be afwally damn fucking good before it's even remotely interesting to other people than (ex)MSX users.

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There are only demos, little games and stuffs like that actualy making their way to the MSX...

You, and many other people on these forums are in the position to increase this activity.

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Even Guyver800 hasn't an MSX ready to work !

That's only because he recently moved to a new house ;P

I'm not saying all 3D sucks (although most of the time it doesn't add to the gameplay at all), I'm not saying PC sucks and I'm absolutely not saying you should not make a remake of a cool MSX game for PC. But a lot of the things you mention are simply not true.

You might notice that I react quite offended. And that's because I feel offended as one of the maintainers of a website that charishes all MSX activity around the world. It's because I feel offended as an MSX developer myself. I can safely say I have seen about all MSX news in the past 4 years (at least) and especially this year the activity of MSX developers has increased a lot. Even Bombaman is nearing completion these days Yesterday we all (more or less) concluded MSX developers should get more attention and compliments. Today, you're saying 'MSX is dead, and you're all stuck in the 2D era. Get a life'. And that hurts. I think this website is the last place to say such things.

right behind you, Snout!

I second that.

We are not forcing you to remake a game for MSX.

If you remake for MSX2, you'll be helping to keep our system alive (although you think it's dead...) and I'll be REALLY interested and happy to have new games for my MSX.

If you want to remake for PC, perfect... do it... but I won't be interested at all.

That simple.

I must partly agree with J-War.
Only partly, because I don't believe MSX is dead
The system is very much alive

I LOVE 3D !
I'm currently coding a platform RPG based on the MoG using OpenGL.
But I also love all MSX games (anybody who knows my MSX game collection can confirm this )

I greatly appreciate any developments on the MSX front.
And I'm planning an MSX2 game after I finish my KnightmareGL game...
But first things first, my debut in game design will be a 3D OpenGL platform RPG for Windows.

Kris.

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The reasons you'd want to develop a game for MSX is because it's a lot more fun (and a lot more rewarding) to develop a game for a system that has a lot of limitations. There's no art in creating a game on a PC. If things work too slow, just throw in a couple of extra hundreds of MHz-es and you're set.

In MY point of vue, like i explained it before unfortunately it's not... It doesn't mean i'm right but i'm pretty sure most of people should share my though...
I started music on MSX then followed on Amiga and PC i do think don't to go back... Like i explained (maybe bad) it's a matter of FREE TIME and we're not child anymore, we have a life where it's not easy to have an MSX ready to work.

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If MSX were truly dead this website would not have existed. At least it would not be growing as excessively as it's been doing since 1999. Of course it's cool to say "Hey, MSX is dead. Why bother creating new software for it". But it's simply not true. The fact that a lot of people have returned to MSX by using emulation doesn't change a bit of that..

You misunderstood me what i meant was : " real commercial market for the MSX is dead..." There is of course a living community for it... With people like us that like to share their passion and devotion.

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Instead of buying all the equipment you're talking about (and I consider a MIDI keyboard to be quite useless on MSX) you could even consider starting development using accurate emulators like NLMSX or openMSX. Once you start working in a limited music tracker like Moonblaster or - even worse - Musica you'll soon find out how cool it is to sqeeze massive sound out of a few channels and instruments. Same goes for graphics (visualize things on 'low' resolutions with only 16 colors and a small amount of sprites) and coding (how the hell are we going to make things work on 3.5MHz).

Already lived that on MSX and Amiga for years, it will be enough for me, thanks...
The equipment i bought allow me to do way more things than a Moonsound or a SCC cart...

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To me, developing on an MSX is rewarding, fun, and educative at the same time. Developing on the PC is a pain in the ass.

Yes, to you... not to me.

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Since you're specifically mention remakes here, isn't the real reason behind all this that you're afraid an MSX developing team isn't capable of making an MSX2 (or turboR, or even turboR/GFX9000) remake of a game that actually looks, feels and sounds better than its MSX1 original?

No actualy i don't want to develo for MSX for the already explained reasons.

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Statistics about people still having a MSX 2 in WORKING STATE they can IMMEDIATELY POWER ON are very very very poor... I wonder where you got those statistics.

You do know what i mean, and beside outside NL, IT, FR, BR, RU & JP they don't even know what is an MSX...

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Could you tell me please how many € i'll have to spend for those ? Pocketchange compared to the PC, Korg Triton and Roland JV-1080 you already own.

See above for answer and btw i have here a complete philips MSX music equipment (NMS8280, philips midi KB, Music Module etc...) i simply haven't the time and the space in my house to use them...

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how many people on the earth will be able to play it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How many people will actually play and like your PC remake? A PC remake of an MSX game needs te be afwally damn fucking good before it's even remotely interesting to other people than (ex)MSX users.

This is actualy what i explained first in my post about sequel of PA, making a realy good thing... Let's give a try and we'll see !

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There are only demos, little games and stuffs like that actualy making their way to the MSX... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You, and many other people on these forums are in the position to increase this activity. Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even Guyver800 hasn't an MSX ready to work ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's only because he recently moved to a new house ;P [QUOTE] Yes and this is the case for most of us, space problems... Moved to new house... New child... No free time.... Which was all i wanted to say when exposing my point of vue.. [QUOTE] I'm not saying all 3D sucks (although most of the time it doesn't add to the gameplay at all), I'm not saying PC sucks and I'm absolutely not saying you should not make a remake of a cool MSX game for PC. But a lot of the things you mention are simply not true.

I never claimed i was, just wanted to let you know my point of vue !

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You might notice that I react quite offended. And that's because I feel offended as one of the maintainers of a website that charishes all MSX activity around the world. It's because I feel offended as an MSX developer myself. I can safely say I have seen about all MSX news in the past 4 years (at least) and especially this year the activity of MSX developers has increased a lot. Even Bombaman is nearing completion these days Yesterday we all (more or less) concluded MSX developers should get more attention and compliments. Today, you're saying 'MSX is dead, and you're all stuck in the 2D era. Get a life'. And that hurts. I think this website is the last place to say such things.

I never said that !
As i said in my post i welcome any new progs on msx and i'll mostly try every or them, so you misunderstood me again there ! My devotion for the MSX won't lead me to the same activities... Each person will follow his path IMHO.
MSX is commercialy Dead by the way, the MSX community isn't, that not the same thing. You can't compare actual sellings and 1989's.

Lemme be realy CLEAR i didn't mean to offend you or anyone, i was defending my point of vue you first disagreed.
Lemme compliment every people developing for MSX, and because of the above reason i think i do know how good the work they achieved is great ! Thank you !

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I must partly agree with J-War. Only partly, because I don't believe MSX is dead The system is very much alive .

i meant commercialy dead.

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I greatly appreciate any developments on the MSX front. And I'm planning an MSX2 game after I finish my KnightmareGL game... But first things first, my debut in game design will be a 3D OpenGL platform RPG for Windows.

I do apreciate also ! I always keep up to date with anything that comes out...

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-FEW- guys that still has a dusty msx in there closet...

Many THOUSANDS is few?! o.O

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Statistics about people still having a MSX 2 in WORKING STATE they can IMMEDIATELY POWER ON are very very very poor... Enven Guyver800 hasn't an MSX ready to work !

What?! I have my turboR right here, I just need to find my monitor cable! (Temporarily lost in moving house)
I could hook up my MSX2 (7MHz, 1MB RAM) in 5 minutes. And the Gfx9000 just needs plugging in too.

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To be able to do my part of the Job i should have all the MSX audio equipement or buy it (Midi Keyboard, Music Module, Moonsound, SCC Cart etc...). Could you tell me please how many € i'll have to spend for those ?

openMSX supports MIDI, Music Module, Moonsound and SCC. It's free!

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Now imagine we do the job for a real TurboR, hey lets add moonsound and V9000 GFX or whatever, how many people on the earth will be able to play it ?

A couple of hundred(!) people. PLUS, all emulator uses (once openMSX starts emulating V9990).

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because sadly the MSX is dead...

ROFL!!!
It's not even commercially dead! MSX-PLAYer dude... Project Egg is not a charity! MSX games are being sold, commercially. It's not the only thing either...

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There are only demos, little games and stuffs like that actualy making their way to the MSX...

Watch and see... The best is yet to come.

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Actualy by choosing to make it on a PC we all follow a more easy, cheap and convenient path... PC Tools are great, mostly free, very accurate and very convenient...

I'll tell you a secret... All my MSX stuff is programmed and drawn on PC!!! It's called cross-development
Do you think SNES games were made on a SNES?! Hell no!

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But THE MOST IMPORTANT : IF you do the game on PC, your game can hit potentialy a lot more people than on any other comps/consoles ...

If you make it for PC it only reaches PC people. I for one never play remakes on PC. In fact, I never play games on PC at all! (Except MAME )
If you make it for MSX, it reaches MSX people AND PC people (using emulators, like openMSX or the official MSX-PLAYer!!).

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If it is realy good you can even use it to promote your skills...

Believe me, if you created a really good game on MSX, that looks FAR better on your resume than some PC game.

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To start a project that could become real, let's NOT start it on MSX or it will be another project that won't go very far...

If everybody had this attitude, MSX really would be dead, but it isn't. Again, cross-development can make developing MSX games really fast!

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We got SO USED to play so many 2d games that i can understand ppl that aren't able to go to the next gaming step...

Bullshit. Metal Gear Solid looks is nice in 3D, but basically it's a 2D game and 99% of it could be done in 2D.
The problem with 3D games is they all look the same, play the same, it's all the same shit!
Only few games are exceptions of this (Zelda, Mario 64/Sunshine).

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I bought my first MSX in 1984 and while i am a old school gamer, i enjoy actualy many 3d games a lot ! There are many 3d sequels to 2d games i even enjoyed more than the old 2d one...

True, same for me. I own a PSX, N64 and NGC, but in general, 3D sucks eggs!
The problem is companies don't dare to use 2D anymore, because they think everybody will laugh at them. So every game is FORCED into 3D, and most of them don't survive.
Again, there are really good exceptions, but 90% of the 3D games really lack in a lot of areas (gameplay, graphics, sound)...

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Now ppl that have read the posts could be even afraid of posting threads about interesting projects for MSX revival on PC.

MSX revival on PC?!? That's not revival, that's burying alive!!!

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The problem is companies don't dare to use 2D anymore, because they think everybody will laugh at them. So every game is FORCED into 3D, and most of them don't survive.

A lot of games would also not survive in 2D.

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Again, there are really good exceptions, but 90% of the 3D games really lack in a lot of areas (gameplay, graphics, sound)...

Only 90%? That's much better than the 2D games I know.