I understand the fact that big companies which still are existing, want to guard copyrights of their games or games from companies, which they have bought in the past. That is understandable.

But it also feels really stupid for users, because how many ex-MSX game companies are STILL today selling MSX software? Publishing old or new titles?

Ok, there are some companies doing this. I have understood that ASCII is again selling msx games. But, those games are not for REAL computer but just emulator. Am I right? So, it is prohibited to download games to play them on emulator with PC. And because of that, you can´t get rare software to REAL old computer either, that´s irritating with MSX because it is so easy to download files and put them to real disk. or make it little harder and do same with waver prog.

Of course you can try to buy stuff from internet comrades, but... I think you got the point. It can be hard to get certain titles that you want to own , and surely no-one are not publishing them again legally for you computer.

Are there any companies which are publishing games for MSX not for msx emulator? And now I of course mean old MSX companies, not home-made progs by users.

This issue is kind of three-fold. And some people seem to have trouble separating the three...

1) The legal standpoint: Copying some stupid MSX1 game with no commercial value whatsoever *IS* illegal and will be until we're all dead and buried and there's not a single copy left on this planet. Sad but true. Talk to your senator.

2) Nobody here is telling you not to copy games. You're all free to do whatever you please, whenever you feel like it. For all we care you can go and make illegal copies of Solid Snake to sell them on ebay.

3) As 'owner' of these forums, MRC is responsible to an extent for its content. This means that if illegal software is being solicited, distributed or even linked to MRC is legally responsible. This is why we kindly request you not to solicit or link to warez.

I cannot make it any clearer than this. I don't know why people continue to bitch and whine about the issue, it's really that simple. There are tons of places out there dedicated to warez. I suggest that anyone who wants to see a copy of a game that is no longer sold look there. This just isn't the place. Sorry...

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I estimate the MSX software library is at least ten times larger than what you can find on the 'net.

Titles that are usually asked ("where can I find XXYYZZ.ROM" ) can be found with a small number of clicks, that's what I am talking about.

Of course, there are great MSX programs that can't be found on the net - I personally own this kind of stuff - but I was talking about the most requested titles.

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Ok, there are some companies doing this. I have understood that ASCII is again selling msx games. But, those games are not for REAL computer but just emulator. Am I right?

You're wrong.
You can buy these games at Project Egg, and with that you bought the legal right to play them. That means you can extract the game rom/disk from the package you bought and run it in your real MSX, or another emulator.
You could also legally download the rom and disk files from the internet, because afterall, you bought the game!

So remember, games for msx emulator == games for msx.

yeah, an example of that are the MAME roms, where in all website say "you can download any rom only if you is owner of the original game-board.

sure! you can download any rom only if you is owner. i agree with that
but it does not seem be a sufficient reason for prohibiting links in posts with some sites (funet and baudejogos for example)...

You might have noticed there has been some unmoderated linking to non-warez sectiosn of funet recently

But, as we don't know which of our visitors have which games (and thus adjust our contents to that) we will remove links to software that has not been declared freeware. Lets be serious about this. Any website stating 'you can only download this if you already own it' knows that 99,999% of the downloaders absolutely don't own the software at all. It's just a sorry excuse for pretending to be legal

K, as far as that goes, indirect linking should be allowed? It may be obvious that direct linking to warez is out of speech, but indirect linking, so that the user's just a few clicks away from the warez he wants? I don't see the problem in this one, cos the whole internet is set up like this...

<-- 666!

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Any website stating 'you can only download this if you already own it' knows that 99,999% of the downloaders absolutely don't own the software at all. It's just a sorry excuse for pretending to be legal

Besides, while downloading software if you already own it is legal, offering the software for download is not, under any circumstance legal. (unless the owner of the site is, or has permission of, the copyright owner)

boah most of us already bought these games back in the 80's no need to buy them twice... Plus companies made enough profits with them back then!
Everything which can spoil this " let's earn even more money using that vintage nostalgy wave " just bring plain erections to me...

All these re-releases and reharshals just keep those softs under commercial exploitation forever and since gaming industry selling departements know there are enough compulsive gamers out there to keep buying everything from a game franchise or another... what else could we expect from them ?

But still... most msx games are now plain old and forgotten but they will still bring a decent amount of pure pleasure so let's enjoy them because hopefuly we're human and intelligent enough to not follow stupid/inacurate laws and rules which have been created only to serve companies to earn more money !

After all if humanity reached his actual level it's because from time to time men we're able to bypass and go above the general lameness / stupidity / rigidity of the law makers and/or those which can more or less abuse people using laws.

We're the one that made the MSX revival, not the companies ! The companies could enventualy faint to want a revival if they can earn money from it, period. But actualy we're the one which put the most greatest efforts in it.

Most of not all of you will post reactions to state how much you don't agree with that but still... MSX is unfortunately well dead and we do all we can to keep it alive.

As long as rom spreading and emulation will carry on, we'll raise chances to catch more people who used to be msx freaks and make this community bigger and even more alive !
Trust me most of them will be happy to be able to play their old games and softs PLUS all the one they weren't able to buy back then (Plus to discover all those softs which were brung later by the amateur scene) without having now to spend ludicrous amount of money on ebay 'n stuffs. We weren't all able to keep our msx hardware and software forever and in the 80's we weren't all able to buy all the game we wanted to play at.
Also, Rom spreading can even lead some people to discover what the MSX was exactly and to eventualy enjoy it !

Coders, composers, graphic designers etc... are just a minority in the actual " scene " most of people just want to play games, share memories and love of their favorite computer and the above minority bring them the possibility to do so... this is just great because it's free !

---- CAUTION !!!! TAKE SOME ANXIOLITICS BEFORE READING FURTHER !!!! CAUTION ----

I DO support MSX roms spreading and honnestly the fact that people can now just enjoy any soft of this awesome obsolete computer just makes me happy.
As i said once on another thread, all the rest is more or less pure hypocrisy and will remain hypocrisy whatever you could answer to this thread.

Although MRC have the absolute RIGHT to tolerate MSX roms links or not, they are still the one that decide what are their own policies and we MUST respect it.
I still think it's not a good thing to get down on it's knees as soon as a japanese company try to intimidate websites/communities around the world but still, MRC members are the only one to decide about their site policies and i respect that.
I had myself a good amount of troubles with various game companies and even the IDSA because of one of my site, but guess what ? We're still here and more powerful than ever and this is our choice no matter if you like it or not

---- CAUTION !!!! TAKE EVEN SOME MORE ANXIOLITICS BEFORE READING FURTHER !!!! CAUTION ----

Although i am one of these msx real hardware/software collector who spent huge amount of money into collecting i still think the real revival IS the MSX emulation !
Hopefuly OpenMSX and BlueMSX (amongst other older one) are here and those bring the most important thing : Anyone can quickly and easily enjoy a (almost) perfect MSX experience and thanks to their respective features on some points it's even better than the real thing !
As i said above, we don't have all enough time/storing/money to have access to real hardwares and softwares... The msx is here for the multitude, for people not JUST for a minority

But hey ! What do you need to fully enjoy an emulator ? You need roms...
As the most reprensentative MSX user of today is an emulator user, well...

With that, am off, kisses honeys

DISCLAIMER :
Noone was individualy targeted by this thread, as mentioned above, take your pills and all should be ok.

Okay, maybe you all there except me know all about project egg... could someone please be so kind and tell me with few words what project egg actually is?

Are they selling real cartridges and disks? I mean old cartridge games are republished and put in new "project egg" cartridge covers?

Or are they just selling disk/rom -images on floppy/cd?

Is any company selling real msx and msx2 cartridges and disks again?

Years ago I found various Atari 2600 sites, where they were making real cartridges from disk images of old games. I recall one site was called Hozer Video Games and they were selling (in 2001) only new user made games + user made hacked versions of old titles which were put to real cartridge. And all old titles were used by permission, and they paid royalties to copyright owners.

Another site was just putting old atari 2600 titles to cartridge, I don´t remember how "legal" their business was.

But I don´t know any big company doing same on any computer. All I know, they are just selling CD-collections of their games for emulator. (and with msx you propably could extract them to floppy, thought that floppy will not be bought floppy with nice labels unless you make your own labels)

Okay, lets start with the easy one

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Okay, maybe you all there except me know all about project egg... could someone please be so kind and tell me with few words what project egg actually is?

Project EGG is a division of the Japanese company Bothtec. Together with MSX Association and the original developers of many Japanese game developers they are re-releasing MSX, PC-88, PC-98, X68000, Sega Master System and perhaps even other systems games on their website for fairly low prices (< 10 ~11 euro a game). To be able to buy this game you need to have an EGG subscription (about 3~4 euro's a month). This money is used to pay the hosting bills, offer support etc. etc. etc. Part of the money EGG makes goes straight to MSX Association who handle the licensing of the system ROMs. That money is being invested in new MSX Revival projects like magazines, Game Readers, Robo-Education, one chip MSX, ....

Project EGG works with online distribution, so after buying the game you can download an .exe file and a manual (I think it'll be in PDF) from their website. The .exe file actually contains an emulator + the game itself as ROM/DSK image (probably encrypted a bit). So, at the moment they are not selling real cartridges and disks as of yet. Aiky (formerly known as Compile) might be releasing Guru Logic on disk though. I don't know any details about that yet, and if I get to know it, you'll be the first to know it (at the MRC frontpage).

Companies co-operating with EGG are companies like Aiky (Compile), D-Wonderland (T&E soft), Falcom, Microcabin, Game Arts, dB-Soft etc. etc. etc. etc. (in other words: All the big ones except, unfortunately, Konami).

I hope this has cleared a few things up.

Now the tough one:

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Plus companies made enough profits with them back then!

Sure, that's why they all quite MSX back then. Because they made a lot of profit out of it Unfortunately this is not how copyright works, J-War. If you have created something you don't want other people to run away with it. You don't want others to gain money (or popularity) with it, without you earning any money for the hard work you've done. Not one week after the release, not 10 years later. It's the creator of the software who is in full control of what can and can not happen to the things he created. And that's how it should be. If the creator decides to make his older products freeware, it's fine. But if he doesn't than it's his choice and I for one respect that choice. Project EGG have found a legal (and not to expensive) way to distribute software that is still copyrighted. This way, both the users and the companies can be happy. The software is no longer doomed to be forgotten, because nobody spreads it anymore, and the game companies can be happy as well.

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The companies could enventualy faint to want a revival if they can earn money from it, period. But actualy we're the one which put the most greatest efforts in it

I take it that you have not met the people behind the MSX Revival. I have. Multiple times. They are MSX fans just like you and me. Mr. Yokoi owns about the biggest MSX Software and Hardware collection I have ever seen. He visits about every MSX meeting in Japan (which he also did before MSX Association started). Sing a game from an MSX song, even European amateur games are allowed, and Mr. Yokoi (and other members) will most likely sing along. The articles in the MSX Magazines are full of 'hey guyz, we love MSX! This is why'. When I was in Japan a problem arose, as AsoBitCity did not want amateur MSX users to sell their products in their building (because of all kinds of weird contracts with distributors). The solution? MSX Association found a neat location on the other side of the road and hired it so that the Japanese Amateur MSX Community could still be there as well. We're talking Akihabara Main Street here, not the cheapest place on earth. Mr. Niitani spent an afternoon talking with me about Aleste 2 and the high expectations Compile had of MSX in the early nineties. He still draws carbuncles for fun Even Nishi, although he might not admit it in every situation, is still in love with MSX. Like we all are. MSX has a weird thing about it. Once you're hooked, you never can let the thing go completely, can you?

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MSX is unfortunately well dead and we do all we can to keep it alive.

That is right. We are not completely dependant on everything that happens in Japan anymore. But that doesn't bean that everything that happens in Japan is a bad thing, does it?

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Trust me most of them will be happy to be able to play their old games and softs PLUS all the one they weren't able to buy back then

This can happen when people can buy the products for fairly low prices at Project EGG as well. With the only difference that the original companies who developed the games will be happy about it as well. Like it or not, it are the original developers who are to decide whether or not their old creations are to become freeware or not. Alice Software have decided to make their hentai games freeware, a whole bunch of companies have decided to tag along with Project EGG. This directly means those companies might regain their interest in the old or new MSX projects. Example: Aiky (Compile) have based their decision on releasing Guru Logic for MSX on their sales in Project EGG.

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I still think it's not a good thing to get down on it's knees as soon as a japanese company try to intimidate websites/communities around the world but still, MRC members are the only one to decide about their site policies and i respect that.

Lets make one thing very clear: you don't know what happened, okay? And lets keep it that way. All I would like to say about this is that a lot more happened than just one email from one company with a "would you be so kind to stop it" and us going "oh yeah, sure, we'll stop instantly!". Nuff said.

MSX Rocks, and we make it.

There.