That's a long read. I've skipped some parts.

Ok, well, the fact I'm not an active MSX coder/graphics artist/musician etc doesn't mean I don't know squad about what's going on.... I guess because I'm not a real "scener" (ugh) I'm considered pretty worthless by some, though.

Anyway, a while ago I'd kinda decided for myself to not voice an opinion yet on the whole MSX revival/Bazix/MRC thing - because I've not yet seen much actually happen, being it either positive or negative (aside from a few issues that I would consider minor).
That doesn't mean I don't have any concerns. Sometimes I won't state something though, not because of the fear of getting banned, but because I know it would be just stirring up trouble.

Oh yeah, well there is one thing. the MRC's not-legal software stance - I'm fine with it. However, the way things like Martos' tape preservation project are slagged off by some as thievery, I didn't quite like that - even if there technically are some laws, I disagree - besides, many of the games Martos' preserved would probably have been declared freeware anyways. Just that he used to be someone who pirated games in the old days, doesn't make it the same now - if I'm not mistaken, in the C64 scene groups like fairlight have a positive name today.

The 1CM - hey, I'd just want one or an MSX gamereader to be able to play MSX carts on some form of more modern media. Currently I see more chances of the gamereader happening than the 1CM though.

Finally, a request - there were rumours about Sunrise, issues lately. I don't know the details, but I'm just asking this: don't kill each other's projects. It'd be bad for all MSX fans.

The thing that caught me most is that GuyveR is continuously saying MRC and Bazix are harming the community, yet he didn't give even one reason why (and/or how). The most stunning part might have been the Sunrise part. What GuyveR said about that, is totally ridiculous. To me it seems that whenever GuyveR spots even the smallest particle of a negative opinion about MRC or Bazix, he tries to use that to enrage people even more.

There's another thing that is perfectly clear to me as well... that is that if GuyveR gets what he wants (that is: snout, Bart and me quitting MRC), MRC will probably vanish in some time. Maybe not so much because of Bart and me, but more because of snout, who is without any doubt the most active MRC admin and who is responsible for most of the newsposts and for many of the other initiatives that keep MRC up and running. I think it must be particularly frustrating to him to read about all this.

The same goes for Latok himself, by the way. From my perspective, the MRC admin team really is a team. I don't want to go without any one of its members, because MSX is a hobby and a hobby must be fun. When we're at a point that people tell you you must quit your hobby and leave your friends because that is the only way to gain back some respect... Well, let's suffice with saying that I don't need the respect of those people at all. When you're not with GuyveR, you're against him, at least it seems to me.

But... these things have been discussed over and over again. All I can do is hope that this rousing of public sentiment (really, did anyone read anything that makes sense in this chat? And - for what reason do you all think this thread was made public? And - why do you think BiFi opens the log by 'explaining' GuyveR really is the guy to look for when you're out for a friendly chat but now he was angry so this is not how GuyveR normally is - etc.) does not harm any kind of activity in the scene any more than it does now.

If GuyveR is as happy as he says he is, please let him create more MSX software. That's what he is good in, far better than in conflict solving

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#msxdev degraded to a fools-community

I'll polish this earlier remark. After a priv.IRCchat with guyver (in Dutch, 'what a difference... this tea makes...'!), the opinions didn't really change in the end, but I need to free a number of #msxdev visitors from blame.

(^_^( )o_O) "we miss [o_o]"

Dear RIKUSU maybe you did not READ that Rob Hiep wanted to stop WITH SUNRISE because of the people who R complaining abouth that the hard ware should BE EXPANSIVE but to my opinion its cheap.

...while those people clearly stated that they were not saying the Sunrise products were too expensive, yet they were only comparing prices. Apart from that, not only the ones who said anything like that (Latok, that is) might be the ones to blame; maybe Sunrise was taking those words a little too sensitively.

You would need a lot more to make me consider quitting MSX than a remark about MRC or Bazix (taking into account the fact that I didn't quit even after reading chatlogs like this ).

As Rikusu said,

Latok stated in that particular thread that he DID NOT say what he said because Sunrise was too expensive, but he made a comparison with the 1CM price, which, IMO, was a bad one, because of the difference in amounts and the fact the release of the 1CM is still unsure.

or in Dutch (just to make it clear):
Latok heeft uitgelegd dat hij het NOOIT gezegd omdat hij Sunrise te duur vond, maar om een prijsindicatie te geven van de 1CM. Ik vond dat niet zo'n goede vergelijking, vanwege het verschil in de hoeveelheden waarin de 1CM geproduceerd gaat worden, als dat al doorgaat.

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...while those people clearly stated that they were not saying the Sunrise products were too expensive, yet they were only comparing prices. Apart from that, not only the ones who said anything like that (Latok, that is) might be the ones to blame; maybe Sunrise was taking those words a little too sensitively. You would need a lot more to make me consider quitting MSX than a remark about MRC or Bazix (taking into account the fact that I didn't quit even after reading chatlogs like this ).

i've read that part too..... but thats not where im revering too on MRC there R allot of topic's........ that do go abouth this subject ........ well i did not say you have to quit with MSX did i?

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(^_^( )o_O) "we miss [o_o]"

Wolf_!

I want to say here that there are a lot of ways to see things, like GuyveR's or the MRC's, and a lot of ways to act, like banning an active user or publish a chatlog...

I have my personal point of view about both the MRC and GuyveR, and I must say that GuyveR (although sometimes is rude with his words) is one of the users who helped me most to learn assembler, like Bifi and all people at #msxdev... I recommend all of you to visit the channel and talk with him and all the people there, if you want to know the other part of the story.

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As Rikusu said, Latok stated in that particular thread that he DID NOT say what he said because Sunrise was too expensive, but he made a comparison with the 1CM price, which, IMO, was a bad one, because of the difference in amounts and the fact the release of the 1CM is still unsure. or in Dutch (just to make it clear): Latok heeft uitgelegd dat hij het NOOIT gezegd omdat hij Sunrise te duur vond, maar om een prijsindicatie te geven van de 1CM. Ik vond dat niet zo'n goede vergelijking, vanwege het verschil in de hoeveelheden waarin de 1CM geproduceerd gaat worden, als dat al doorgaat.

U need some new glasses maybe

Why its sudenly the LATOK accident? do you think this was the only thing that drove ROB Hiep MAD? there R serval reasons....................................... I allready know what latok said....

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well i did not say you have to quit with MSX did i?

You didn't . I was trying to say that a chatlog like this, in which the two things I am involved in (MRC and Bazix) are practically bashed into the ground, I don't even consider quitting, whereas Rob considered quitting only after reading Latok's single remark about the prices. Just to elucidate the fact that maybe Rob was a little too sensitive about that as well.

Well 5000 1CHMSX's is mass producion so 189 is quiete Expansive for just a PCB with out a keyboard
so 5000*€189=€945000 thats allot of money involved
so who is gonna finance that ?

K RIKUSU i tought you said that i said that

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I have my personal point of view about both the MRC and GuyveR, and I must say that GuyveR (although sometimes is rude with his words) is one of the users who helped me most to learn assembler, like Bifi and all people at #msxdev...

Like I said: GuyveR is good at coding (and so is BiFi), so please let them use their time to code and help others in the way they helped you . And then publish that chatlog here and there so others might learn something as well

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I recommend all of you to visit the channel and talk with him and all the people there, if you want to know the other part of the story.

Isn't that "other part" already published here? There's even more?

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and I must say that GuyveR (although sometimes is rude with his words) is one of the users who helped me most to learn assembler

I'm, for one, not even remotely questioning the development-side of his personality!