The topic ''for sale msx yamaha en msx2 philips mns 8280'' got locked because of insulting postings.

Here are two links to websites explaining why electronical stuff can get defective sooner or later.

This may be due to electromigration, see here: www.csl.mete.metu.edu.tr/Electromigration/emig.htm and here: www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/mw1_ge/kap_a/backbone/ra_5_1.html.

The second link points to a german website, but the picture provided there is better to comprehend the mechanism.

Every existing MSX computer is at least over ten years old and maybe used frequently within its lifetime. Nowadays, the one who's going to buy such stuff must face that it will go defective after a short period of time. I also don't understand why there's such kind of insulting posting because of the computers bought got defective. Everything will go defective sooner or later, and everybody knows it.

I don't have the statistics about how many years or thousands of hours any particular kind of MSX machine can work until it breaks, but I know that most of PC machines I had in last decade finally broke or required replacement of major parts in it.

And as you know, many of us still use old MSX machines - for example, my own Yamaha MSX2 was produced in 1986 and has no problems so far.

I have the feeling that most retro computers will outlive modern computers.

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And as you know, many of us still use old MSX machines - for example, my own Yamaha MSX2 was produced in 1986 and has no problems so far.

Yes, I know! But it depends on how long you used it and how often you switched it on and off. Termical stress can also cause it to go defective.

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I have the feeling that most retro computers will outlive modern computers.

Yes, I agree!

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But it depends on how long you used it and how often you switched it on and off. Termical stress can also cause it to go defective.

Maybe you are right and I am using and switching on/off my PCs much more than MSX machine; but it also can be because PCs have more components and circuits that can break, or because the overall quality of modern electronics is not as good as it was in the past.

I´m very desapointted about what happened in the Forums

wherE?

I have a Sony HB-10P working nice since 1986 and still kickin'

Hey, my post no. 200!

** huge offtopic but I can't resist pointin' it! **

Congratulations viejo, now up to 1000

Ontopic: I bought in 1988 a NMS8245 in a computer store in 's-Hertogenbosch(holland)...when I came home the diskdrive didn't work properly...back to the store...they said they fixed it....I came home...damn, again the same problem....after 5 times I wanted a new computer....they didn't give a new one, finally they put a new drive into the msx and it never broke again! (and I was never gone back to that store)

We all know that diskdrives are error-prone, but what's about other MSX components ?

I would nominate PSUs. My 8280 needed to have one of those fixed.

And cartridges+slots are a bit tricky as well if you don't use your machine for a while.

Apart from that I never had problem. Well, not counting physical violence done to a keyboard.

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I would nominate PSUs. My 8280 needed to have one of those fixed. And cartridges+slots are a bit tricky as well if you don't use your machine for a while. Apart from that I never had problem. Well, not counting physical violence done to a keyboard.

Top 10 of things that I have seen go bad on MSX computers and other hobby computers:

1. Floppy drives like physical damage, wornout belts, dirt and dust, broken off diskheads. Depending on type easy to fix (belt) or easy to replace (Philips). The drives as used in the turboR are quite hard to replace, both physical and electronical.
2. Power supply, especially Philips NMS8250/55/80. Often goes bad at switching on the machine or machine getting too hot after many hours.Mostly fixed by replacing diodes or better a small switching powersupply.
3. Damaged slots, ranging from physical damage, bad connections due to dirt to damaged interface chips and (on MSX-1 mostly due to inserting/removing with power switched on) damaged vdp chip. Repair connections by cleaning. Vdp replacement is hard, but often it is just the clock signal and you can fix that with an external clock circuit like he 7 MHz kit for example.
4. Damaged joystick connectors Other connectors getting damaged., physical teared off from pcb or damaged interface chips.
5. Color or other video distortions. Most MSX machines have country dependent video circuitry (PAL, NTSC, SECAM, 50/60 HZ etc). Often sperate boards of mediocre quality with analog circuitry that can get slowly drifting out of the preferred setting.
6. Bad keys on the keyboard. Mostly dirt and easy to fix by cleaning. Some keyboards are not easy to fix though (e.g. Sony) due to wornout contact material.
7. Memory chips malfunctioning (quite often after a memory upgrade ), hard to repair
8. Physical damage like dropping on the floor, leading to hard to find bad connections on the pcb and such.
9. Burned out printer interface. On machines with a MSX engine a nightmare to repair without smd soldering equipment.
10. Apply 230V to a 110V imported Japanese machine: burned out power supply!

Special cases are machines modified/upgraded by non-professionals: bad solder connections, extra wires not connected anymore or too long wiring creating crosstalk etc.

Having access to a service manual helps!

Any electronic device will fail once, at an unexpected moment.
If I understand the current european laws around trade and garantuees, only companies are obliged to fix/replace/refund even secondhand goods. So if you buy from a private party an old machine like a 20 year old MSX machine and it works at the moment of the sale, you cant legally complain later when it stops functioning later. And what do you expect from a device that old?

HansO: Your post is well appreciated!

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Any electronic device will fail once, at an unexpected moment. If I understand the current european laws around trade and garantuees, only companies are obliged to fix/replace/refund even secondhand goods. So if you buy from a private party an old machine like a 20 year old MSX machine and it works at the moment of the sale, you cant legally complain later when it stops functioning later. And what do you expect from a device that old?

That's this threat is all about!

The companies are obliged to fix/replace/refund stuff, even it is second hand, only within warranty periode?

Well, HansO, none of the reasons of failure you gave is connected to electromigration mentioned by Tanni.
Most of them are rather examples of inaccurate usage, not of hard wearing.

If you don't insert cartridges into a switched on machine, don't solder on the board, don't drop your MSX etc. - it will work tens of years.