Sander, now you're underestimating the situation in Africa a bit, you know? Don't believe all the tv programs which only show people dying from starvation. Of course, most of Africa are developing countries, but it really isn't as bad as media sometimes tries to show you..



Believe me, I've been in countries as Tunesia, The Gambia, Kenya and Tanzania. I know what I'm talking about.



But your story in itself was damned funny to read!! Cheers for that!

trust me, latok, I WILL NEVER FORGET NEITHER REJECT THE MSX FEELING !

simply can't be done, the memory is to strong to just ignore.



It's just that I have spend so fucking much time on MSX, I forgot about real live out there. That's what I am realizing now. Not that I wouldn't mind locking myself up for a few weeks again, just to code the hell out of msx, but I must be strong and open to be aware of the consequences. If I let my self into this state again, I would eventually destroy myself. I would trade it all for just a little peace of mind u know.

I must make arms out of my imperfection to fight this hunger.... really.



While it has done many good, I have trouble going down the spiral again. Letting go would sound like a logic solution. like I said; saw that gap again today. I spend many years in question; what if I would be digging up the machine.



MSX has been great. And YES maybe it IS a good concept, atleast 20 years ago. But nowadays it is far outdated, just like that old opel kadet I used to drive...

I do own a opel astra now, just for DRIVING. I am not interrested in fixing, repearing, updating or renewing that damn old car. Not my thing. I am a *normal* user, as you pointed out so correctly.



I can imagine the drones at the autoshop would LOVE to look under the hood... But I never hear them talk about renewing an old car... yeah, maybe only for collectors..

And there you have it; COLLECTING THE ORIGINALS.

They are not interrested in my brand new opel astra, nor would they see an upgrated old ford 10 or what ever.



I too love the MSX classic. Okay, I keep it in a box on the attic, so what? I still got that good feeling.



whoops, typed too many frustration allready.. I'll leave ya lot at peace and keep my big mouth shut for this day..



so greets, oan't moan.

ro

And btw, memory mapping is VERY cool. While programming the Z380 with its linear memory is heaven, in certain circumstances you really miss the possibilities memory mapping offers. It just allows you to do alot of things very fast.



Linear + mapping would be ideal.

ro, thanks for this personal reaction. It's indeed an addiction. I admit I'm addicted to MSX sincs 1985 now. But I like to be addicted to something. It is often better than the real world anyway...



Your comparison with cars is interesting. I'm going to think on that for a while.

GuyveR800, you're a programming guru, so if you say memory mapping has advantages, I believe you instantly. For me, it was pretty hard to get the hang of it. I have it now, but erhm.....It's not easy, I think.

I think linear memory / memory mapped both have their advantages and disadvantages. But it seems to me linear memory is easier to learn. Or am I overlooking something?



What's important is that it should get much easier and faster to address the VDP in the new one-chipper (I don't call it a new MSX because I'm quite convinced it will not be an MSX, but a computer based on the MSX philosophy).



About the situation in Africa and other developing countries: a $100 computer enables a lot of developing countries - with the support of the richter countries out there - to step into a world of computers & internet, get access to information in their own language etc. etc. etc. This means that this one chipper could be a nice start for them to become economically succesfull (at last).

The memory will be a bit more complicated because the new msx will have a multitasking operating system. But because nobody will be programming assembler for it (everyone will use C++, C, BASIC, JAVA or whatever) this will be hidden for the programmer.



And for everyone wil dislikes Windows: Do you think the new MSX with Linux will feel like a MSX? What is the difference? The user just sees the interface. And at least Windows has an interface.



And for the BASIC: didn't ASCII make a SaturnBASIC for the Sega Saturn? As far as I know this looked very much like MSX BASIC.



I still like Windows XP.



Didn't Microsoft a great job on MSX-Dos? Let's how they downgrade Windows to create Windows msXP.

any OS currently created by Microsoft will probably go directly against the MSX philosophy. Because then we'll need developer kits, and other expensice things in order to be able to create software on the computer. No way Microsoft is going to document an XP-based OS for free. As stated before, according to Nishi's plans the one-chipper will have 'three' layers



- Direct access (coding in ASM)

- A linux-based OS, aimed directly at the one-chipper (coding in C/PASCAL, run ported programs, multitasking)

- intentOS (probably with a BASIC)



thanks to mth (offtopic forum) I know the latest MacOSX does about the same. Major advantage is that a lot of modern software is nearly directly available for the one-chipper. Which makes it easier to switch, or get a one-chipper next to your existing computers.

Microsoft programmed the MSX-BIOS, MSX-BASIC, MSX-DOS and so on. Why should anything they create for the new MSX go against the MSX philosophy?



I think I will program my own Windows XP-like Super OS on the new MSX.



Hoever, I am aware of the fact the decision is already made. I just don't think a Linux-based OS is that much fun. Why should I buy another computer when I already have 3 computers capable running Linux, and faster then the new MSX probably will.



There has to be some added value. And what are the graphics specs, sound specs? I know I, being the diehard MSX fan I am, can get excited with just a basicprompt, but when I show my friends what I am doing when I am not getting drunk some cutting edge 3d graphics would be nice.



And what is a CIEL3++?

what is IntentOS anyway?

Please, XP sucks like hell with it fucking stop errors!

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Microsoft programmed the MSX-BIOS, MSX-BASIC, MSX-DOS and so on. Why should anything they create for the new MSX go against the MSX philosophy?

Because microsoft 20 years ago != microsoft today

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The memory will be a bit more complicated because the new msx will have a multitasking operating system.

How will that be more complicated? With a common MMU with memory protection there is nothing complicated to it.



[quote[

But because nobody will be programming assembler for it (everyone will use C++, C, BASIC, JAVA or whatever) this will be hidden for the programmer.[/quote]



The whole idea is it IS programmable in assembler. The ARM assembly language is very very nice to work with. And extremely powerful too!

Quote:

And for everyone wil dislikes Windows: Do you think the new MSX with Linux will feel like a MSX? What is the difference? The user just sees the interface. And at least Windows has an interface.

MSX running Linux will not feel like MSX indeed, but everything around it will. And personally I don't think I will run that MSX in Linux alot!

Remember, a lot of MSX'ers never use (or used) MSX-DOS much at all!



Please try to move away from the PC concept of platform/OS coupling.

Quote:

I still like Windows XP.

That's your perogative

Personally I hate it, it makes me feel like I have no control over the computer whatsoever.

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Didn't Microsoft a great job on MSX-Dos? Let's how they downgrade Windows to create Windows msXP.

No they didn't. Okay, for the time it was, but it was 20 years ago. Microsoft did NOTHING for MSX after the initial work.. And why would anybody intentionally give another market to microsoft so it can abuse its monopoly more and bully all of us with things like Paladdium?!

I think you need to get your lips off of Gates' butt



MSX-DOS2, now that is a good, but not written by Microsoft

Quote:

And what is a CIEL3++? what is IntentOS anyway?

STFW, ie. Google

if the new MSX has in anyway something to do with microsquirt, or based upon XP then i think the computer will crash and hang and slowdown and become xtremely annoying

Please, Windows XP does NOT suck. It's just being what most peolpe want.



And even when it crashes, who cares?

1. When it crashes, I was doing nothing, or nothing important. Like Internet or whatever. What was the last time you were doing something useful using Windows?

2. When it crashes the nice blue screen reminds me of msx basic. Same colors.

3. If you think windows suck, just use Linux or whatever. No-one makes you use Windows. And I have seen other OSes going down just the same.



I have never had this much fun with an OS since Windows95. Microsoft always makes me laugh with their stupid look-driven interfaces. I even BOUGHT Windows XP. And it's worth every euro.



It's great that everybody reacts on Windows XP, but why does everybody seem to love Linux? Did you ever use Linux?



C'mon, I want a good GUI. And I know Microsoft isn't interested in good GUIs. And I want a nice OS. Linux is not nice. Windows is not nice.



I thought we would discuss what OS the new msx should have. And now I am involved in another Windows vs. Linux debate.



I hope the new msx will be multiboot. That will do some good for the 'MSX standard'.

I agree with Mark (Hi dude! ^_^) here

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Because microsoft 20 years ago != microsoft today

Nothing is the same as 20 years ago (OK, Unix is ).

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How will that be more complicated? With a common MMU with memory protection there is nothing complicated to it.

OK, I even think the MSX memory mapper is complicated. I like to adress the memory directly, and that isn't easy in a multitasking environment. All programs have to be linked when they are loaded to memory.

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The whole idea is it IS programmable in assembler. The ARM assembly language is very very nice to work with. And extremely powerful too!

If the new msx is fast enough (and it will be, ofcourse), I probably won't program any assembler for it. I know what the ARM assembly language looks like, and I do like it a lot. There are a lot of features not to be found on other cpus. And the thumb mode is very Z80 like. (By the way, which ARM will be used?)

Quote:

MSX running Linux will not feel like MSX indeed, but everything around it will. And personally I don't think I will run that MSX in Linux alot! Remember, a lot of MSX'ers never use (or used) MSX-DOS much at all!

Uhm well, for me, the new msx won't be a computer to use, but just another toy to play with. I am just looking for something easy to program, but more powerful than the current msxes.

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Please try to move away from the PC concept of platform/OS coupling.

The platform/OS coupling is not a PC thing. Look at all the OSes that excist for the x86 PC.

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>>I still like Windows XP.<<

Haha. It will be exited to see how much worse it can get, or not?

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That's your perogative Personally I hate it, it makes me feel like I have no control over the computer whatsoever.

I never wanted to have any control whatsoever over a PC. I just do not like PC's. I do not like Intel cpu's. Still Windows is the best OS for a PC for the average user.

Quote:

No they didn't. Okay, for the time it was, but it was 20 years ago. Microsoft did NOTHING for MSX after the initial work.. And why would anybody intentionally give another market to microsoft so it can abuse its monopoly more and bully all of us with things like Paladdium?! I think you need to get your lips off of Gates' butt MSX-DOS2, now that is a good, but not written by Microsoft

MSX DOS was not good. Well nothing Microsoft ever did was good, but still they are where they are today. Hoever, I don't think anyone at ASCII wants anything to do with Microsoft anyway.



MSX-DOS2 was a little late.

Quote:

STFW, ie. Google

Thanks.



Still, I like the microkernel idea.