What I like most with the idea is the linking to the generation-msx database. I think it would benifit the users and also make it easier for
us to maintain a complete database with game info, screenshots etc.

I'm not sure how the generation-msx database is managed now but it would most likely require some policy changes so that the people managing the current databases in blueMSX and openMSX have full access to the database. Our database is updated quite frequently so oving to a different database should not require extra work or be of any hassle to our database maintainers.

I also think that there needs to be different levels of access to the database. Anonymous gets is a requirement, so that users that only want
to get the latest updates from the database can do so without any login or other registration. The good thing with an online database is that it would be easy to implement for example a feature where the user could sync to the online database and download the latest rom info.

In blueMSX there is a small problem though and that is that we support other systems as well and for us it may be easier to implement and manage a database sync feature ourselves (if we want such feature of course).

The second part of the idea could be fun for some users. As snout said, I think that some users would like to share stats to show that they are active. The feature would be even more fun if there was an online highscore list of some of the more popular games.

The whole idea is to enhance the MSX experience. If it will is hard to say but I think that it could. I'm an oldschool gamer but it looks like gamers nowdays like to be connected on the internet.

So I like especially the idea of having an online database but it needs an option to get all info so that the emulator releases can be shipped with a snapshot of the database for users that don't want to access it directly. Currently openMSX and blueMSX have their own databases and merging it with generation-msx seems like a good idea if management of it can be opened to other people than the once currently managing it.

The stats part is nothing I probably would use myself but I can see that some users could have fun with it. And with enhanced features like highscores it could be even more fun.

As for implementation in blueMSX its also a matter of prioritization. We have other big features in the pipe, like support for Obsonet, and we typically choose bigger features based on what users want. I think the idea of a poll is good to see how users value a feature like this. If it turns out that 50% of all users think its great it would be stupid not to implement it. On the other hand not that many is interested there are other things that can be done to give more value to the users.

Actually I see quite some software (freeware, shareware whatever) that during install mentions it likes to gather information about your computer to send back for bugfixing, the Netscape popup @ Mozilla when it crashes springs to mind. I usually click 'no' or 'cancel', and I uncheck these options during installs. So, is such software by itself spyware?

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So I like especially the idea of having an online database but it needs an option to get all info so that the emulator releases can be shipped with a snapshot of the database for users that don't want to access it directly. Currently openMSX and blueMSX have their own databases and merging it with generation-msx seems like a good idea if management of it can be opened to other people than the once currently managing it.

We will have to arrange this with Sandy, but I think it's not a big problem. I already worked a lot on the GenMSX DB myself, e.g. Everything else you said about this is true: we will need a dump to ship with the emulators in case you are working offline. This could be well done in the already existing XML format, which contains just enough info. When you're online, you can get more info, like screenshots and extra metadata. This would be interesting to use in launchers e.g. as well.

For the stats part: submitting highscores would indeed be a more advanced option, but we would have to make sure that it is not just POKE'd there So (mth's great idea), we would also have to submit the user input events, so that the whole game can be replayed. This is an extra advantage: you can not only see that he got the high score in an honest manner, but you can also see how he played the game to get it! Wouldn't that be cool?

(For the latter to work, you do need some metadata on how to extract the score from the game, of course...)

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we would also have to submit the user input events, so that the whole game can be replayed.

I'm actually working on this right now. Not for online submission but to be able to replay and create video clips. But the same data could of course be used for a highscore feature as well in the future.

I really don't get the point of this thread. The gamestats feature would be optional and disabled by default. If you don't like it or you think that the information will be used for evil pruporses (w00t!?), just left it disabled and you are done! Furthermore, snout is only suggesting, and it's up to the emulators developers to implement it or not.

If the problem is that someone could think that openMSX/blueMSX/fMSX/insert_your_emulator_here would send information to the MRC, even with the feature disabled, I only see two reasons to think that: 1. That person is insanely paranoid (in that case I would suggest him to NEVER install Windows). 2. It's just another lame stage of some not less lame anti-MRC campaing.

That's my opinion of the whole thing.

maybe some of you are just realy afraid to have pink sox & peach up appear in the stats,
for everyone to see you're a sad lil pervy with no social life
(me boots samantha fox strippoker)

Yeahwell, apart from the pix, some of those peachup games are actually excellent games!

But agreed, that does sound a bit like reading the playboy for the interesting interviews alone. ^_^

haha admitted, they DO have some realy nice games...
and nekkid chics with pixeled boobies

I'm not sure if it's been covered before, but what if someone cheats?

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And... wait a minute: you found more reasons not to use openMSX, just because we are discussing an idea for a feature??? Wow...

Eoeoe, manuel, wait a minute. I wasn't trying to blame openMSX!, and if it sounded like that, I'm really sorry. The reasons that I prefer blueMSX is its easy use, simply image mounting and friendly debugger that I'm used to, that's all. And that new idea you are wondering about registering logs in a server about played games it is not for me, that's just my opinion. Anyway I apologize if my words sounded anti-openMSX. It was not my intention, please don't get that feeling from me.

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I'm actually working on this right now. Not for online submission but to be able to replay and create video clips. But the same data could of course be used for a highscore feature as well in the future.

Imho, that's a nice feature. Specially for betatesters to show particular bugs to developers.

I like the distinction made by dvik between the additionnal infos about the games and the stats part.

For most gamers, the first part is very interesting and could be viewed as a bonus in both emulators. Actually, it requires to add a field in the existing database, that field should contain a link to the ad hoc page on Generation MSX.

It should be an optional version of the blueMSX/openMSX database, because it will extend the size of the database and some gamers are not interested by this bonus.

I must also precise that not all kind of used software could be correctly detected. Imagine that someone uses the dsk version of a game in stead of the rom version and has changed the loader file to replace poke-1,170 by the 'universal poke'. This dsk file will probably not be recognized as the writing of this 'universal poke' will change the sha1 value and besides, you can write this 'universal poke' on different ways, adding or not a new Basic line, ...

By the way, the same problem of non-detection for modified cas files !

With these examples, you can now understand why all the system (extra infos and stats) will only work with roms. And even in this case, a vicious user (like me !) could change some unused bytes to make the sha1 value different ...

What concerns the stats part, I don't think it will interest many users. Let's see the reactions of the users.

Personnally, by principe, I'm against the stats system.

The fact that they should be collected on an anonym way or with a personal login does not change anything for me, as we know that hacker tools can reveal what's hidden.

The fact that it should be collected on the MRC server, on the blueMSX server, on the openMSX server, on the Generation MSX server, or on my own server, does not change my point of view : I'm simply against any way of looking in the privacy of the users.

As you know, I use WinXP, and this product comes with 2 or 3 spywares. But I have also installed eTrust PestPatrol and these spywares are removed. For the same reasons, I'm very glad to use Firefox, because I can disable all suspect Javascripts that could be the open door to spyware, like Google-Analytics for example. So being against GameStats is only logic for me.

The fact that it should be disabled by default in the emulator is not enough to avoid abuses, because an hacker could change some parameters of the emulator and enable GameStats without your consent.

As I've said, the only good security option is to use a version of the emulator without this feature.

As Daniel has said, it's not a priority for the blueMSX team, but in the case it should be implemented, than 2 versions of the emulator will be required to satisfy all the users, not only those who prefer the maximum security option (like me), but also the users who like stats and don't care about security problems.

UNIVERSAL POKE.... I LIKE THAT NAME

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The fact that it should be collected on the MRC server, on the blueMSX server, on the openMSX server, on the Generation MSX server, or on my own server, does not change my point of view : I'm simply against any way of looking in the privacy of the users.

And what if you simply disable this function in the emulator? Would you vote against such stats-function, even if other users would like such a function?

And about that hacker: why would a hacker do so? Hackers aim for the world, not a small msx world..


Also, would you vote against such stats if there will be 2 versions of each emu, one with and one without this features built-in.. (so no hacker could switch the function on)

Wolf, don't isolate a phrase from his context and read the text until the end !!!!

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Anyway, in any case I think this whole blowup is quite overrated, it was a mere suggestion, and the first thing ppl react with is 'uhoh! booh booh! spyware! alarm! alarm!'. It would be the last thing I'd be concerned about, but hey, who am I ..