Maybe this information will be interesting for someone of MSX-users.

I'm not really MSX-user, I more have deals with ZX Spectrum. Here, in Russia, we have many types of ZX-compatible computers, and fans of them. Some of this computers (ATM Turbo 2+, Pentagon 1024SL) are in produced by enthusiasts even today, as enthusiasts of MSX or C64 produced MoC or C-One. Additionally, some hardware upgrades are produced. In last year gained popularity sound extension called 'Turbo Sound' (TS for short). It's replacement for AY/YM sound chip - board, plugged into AY IC socket instead of AY. Board contains two AY (YM) chips, it's given six sound channels instead three, which means more polyphony, or non-overlapped sound fx in games (of course, only in games with support of TS). No additional connections with computed board required, chip selects by output in un-exists register of AY (above 15th), audio output return to corresponding pins of AY socket (also user can get output directly from TS board, if he need more cleaner sound). For this extension already exists some ZX software, include two musical editors (trackers) for ZX, and one cross-editor for win32 - Vortex Tracker II (latest versions have support for TS). Music compo for TS already spent on two our local demoparty - DiHalt'06 and CC'06.

In this year planned production of new version this sound extension - 'Turbo Sound FM' (TFM for short). It give all features of TS, fully compatible with it, and also give six channels 4-op FM-synth (OPN, two YM2203 chips on board). It sounds very close to Sega Megadrive (directly conversion of registers data from .gym or .vgm-files also possible, except digital channel and LFO features). Prototypes already were made and debugged, and production of first series must begin in first half of this year. Special music cross-editor (tracker for win32) now in developing, it already close to release, and planned to be released with TFM boards or earlier. TFM connected with computer and programming with same methods as TS.

There is no serious problems to use these two devices on MSX computers (or any systems with AY/YM chips) - except that in all devices which I saw, AY have soldered to main board (in almost all of ZX-compatible russian clones AY/YM plugs into IC socket), so desoldering chip and replacing them to socket is needed.

Of course, these devices gave nothing for old games. But that can be optionally supported in new software, and can be way to upgrade sound features of old computers without using of rare original devices.

I've got some bad news for you: AFAIK, in all MSX2 and higher computers the PSG is included in the MSX Engine. Therefore, there's no way to desolder and replace it. It could be interesting for MSX1 though.

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I've got some bad news for you: AFAIK, in all MSX2 and higher computers the PSG is included in the MSX Engine. Therefore, there's no way to desolder and replace it. It could be interesting for MSX1 though.

I saw not very many MSX models in reality - two, if be exact: Daewoo MSX CPC300 and CPC400/400s. It is Korean MSX2, and it have real AY chip on board. Also I saw some photos (not many) of MSX board in internet, including MSX2 - it's also has real AY chips on board.

Of course, I not expert in this - in Russia common models is only this Daewoo's and Yamaha YIS503, all other models very rare here.

MSX is doing quite well with sound chips: PSG, OPLL, OPL1, OPL4, SCC plus the MIDI interface in Turbo-R, which is probably the most used MSX computer nowadays.

BTW: both Yamaha teacher and pupil computers use S1985 engine, which include PSG among other things.

I know, MSX have many good sound devices, and I like all of it.

But let's compare:

TS vs PSG = 6ch vs 3ch, two envelopes vs one. AY lose.
TS vs SCC = .. vs 4ch without envelope, but with custom wave-form... Let's say this is a draw.
TS vs PSG+SCC = yeah, TS lose.

TFM vs PSG, SCC, PSG+SCC = all they lose.
TFM vs OPLL = OPLL lose. Only one custom instrument, 2-op synth.
TFM vs OPL1 = OPL1 lose, 2-op.
TFM vs OPL4 = of course TFM crashed in dust, OPL4 win

MIDI is not a sound device.


With this thoughts I think all that I said in first post can be slightly interesting for MSX-community. Of course, it's just information, not a appeal to warm up big soldering iron

I am interested but thinking more in msx1 upgrades...... who will upgrade the sound of a msx1 anyway?

how much is we talking about?

Dont forget MSX can play cd-audio tracks... no way to beat *that* quality of sound

Depends on what CDs you're playing

Either way... perhaps TurboSound can be VHDL-ed into the OCM?

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I've got some bad news for you: AFAIK, in all MSX2 and higher computers the PSG is included in the MSX Engine. Therefore, there's no way to desolder and replace it. It could be interesting for MSX1 though.

Not completely true[*], but indeed, practically all MSX computers currently in use have no separate PSG chip.

[*] Some MSX1 machines have an MSX-ENGINE, e.g. the Philips VG-8020/20 and some MSX2 machines have no engine, e.g. the Sony HB-G900P.

Shiru: First of all, welcome to our msx community. Really nice project this one. Unfortunately (in this case), MSX already have many sound chips, but I welcome this as a oportunity for both comunities, since MSX1 and ZX have similar hardware, there's no reason why both platforms can't benefit from exchanging hardware/software. It would be nice to see more ZX-Spectrum <-> MSX hardware projects being used in both platforms, in the future.

Is this the PSG upgrade?

http://velesoft.speccy.cz/turbosound-cz.htm

Simple and fun!

MoonSound or not, you've got to be able to appreciate this!

Amazing track Sonic

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Dont forget MSX can play cd-audio tracks... no way to beat *that* quality of sound

Todays russian ZX-clones is able to even play video from data CD, with digital sound (not CD quality, of course), not only CDDA. But CDDA is not very good for games, because it's not very flexible. It can't be looped smooth, it can't be pitched, dynamically alterated, and it can't be used for in-game sound fx. Also CDDA not very good for musicians, because it gave nothing to them from creativity point of view (no unique sound, just way to replay recorded tracks).

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Either way... perhaps TurboSound can be VHDL-ed into the OCM?

Yes, if there is still enough free space in FPGA for second PSG, it will be easy to implement TS support in OCM. But in case with TFM, which is far advanced than TS, it will be very hard (because YM2203 need to be implemented in VHDL).

There is another easy way to bring these devices to MSX - it's possible to develop simple cross-board, which will be inserts into MSX slot, and TS/TFM will be connected to this board. But in this case additional hardware developing is needed, total price of device grows (by now it less than $30 for assembled boards). I don't think it's rational idea, because, as said above, MSX already have many good sound devices.

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Shiru: First of all, welcome to our msx community. Really nice project this one. Unfortunately (in this case), MSX already have many sound chips, but I welcome this as a oportunity for both comunities, since MSX1 and ZX have similar hardware, there's no reason why both platforms can't benefit from exchanging hardware/software. It would be nice to see more ZX-Spectrum <-> MSX hardware projects being used in both platforms, in the future.

Yes, I gave information above not just for 'advertise our great irons', but to give both communities know little more about each other, and maybe do them little closer. It is possible that future ZX projects also come to MSX. For example, there is a plans (this work already in progress) to make new videoboard for ZX, based on V9990 chip, with possibility of usage even on old un-upgraded 128K models. So, it will be possible to make cross-platform software projects both for ZX with this videoboard and MSX with GFX9000.

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Is this the PSG upgrade?

Yes, it is.

Some comments for link:

Turbo-Sound-Easy is a Czech project, not russian. We had plans to do TS based on SAA1099 before, but decide to use two AY/YM instead, because SAA is incompatible with AY by program model (so adaptation of music/sound software is needed, and standart AY for compatibility needed too - higher price and more work without any advantages).

Turbo-Sound rev. C is a last revision of our device, it's compatible with previous versions, and old and new software. If anybody want to do it yourself, schematic on page is good to use; schematic of rev. B is outdated, so don't use it.

Turbo-Sound-FM, which shown on page is a prototype device, so I recommend to not use this to DIY, because it have bad sound, and works only with non-turbo machines. In production revision a schematic, board, and PLD code was changed to solve all problems. Updated schematic and code will be available then production of TFM boards begins, I think.

I upload some examples, how TS and TFM sounds (that records are not present on the link, mentioned above). Because I don't know, which file exchange services popular in world, I upload files to rapidshare. If you can't download files from that site, but want to listen this examples, please tell me, where I can upload files for you. All tracks recorded from emulator (sorry, I don't have real hardware right now), but it sounds very close to real devices (I listen them on real hardware as well, even on same audiosystem). Each files ~1MB size (mp3, 128kbit).

All tracks except for 'tfm_cosmofm' (which is my very simple original track, written in process of debugging cross-tracker) is a covers of VG music from misc game consoles. It's not direct conversion, I made all this tracks by hand in trackers. Direct conversion from Sega Megadrive is also possible, even with PSG (SN) channels, but I think, it's no so interesting.

Turbo Sound:

All this tracks (with 6 another) were used in game Ball Quest for ZX clones ATM Turbo 2+ and Pentagon with 16col mode.

http://rapidshare.com/files/10865010/ts_sd_kidou_senshi_gundam2_bursted_fire.mp3.html (from SNES game SD Kidou Senshi Gundam 2)
http://rapidshare.com/files/10865048/ts_soldier_blade_track6.mp3.html (from PCE game Soldier Blade)
http://rapidshare.com/files/10865072/ts_vectorman_tidal_surge.mp3.html (from SMD game Vectorman)

Turbo Sound FM:

http://rapidshare.com/files/10864895/tfm_cosmofm.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/10864950/tfm_topgun2_lv2.mp3.html (from NES game Top Gun 2)

Note that TFM tracks use only FM channels, without PSG (which also can be used, of course; but for games we think use PSG channels only for sound fx); drums are FM-synthed too. Both TS and TFM tracks plays on frame interrupts, i.e. 50hz.