My opinions:

- Next MSXdev should have two categories, one for MSX1 and another for MSX2/2+. That would allow freedom of development, and hopefully more games.

- MSX2 may have better graphics, but honestly, besides the scroll and colors, I rarely saw games for the MSX2 that could not have been done for the MSX1. IMHO Aleste would be the same game, with an 8x8 scroll, less colors and slightly more flicking, but the essence of the game is the same: a vertical shooter, and the MSX1 has plenty of shooters as good as Aleste (not mentioning of course Aleste 2, it´s a shmup dream): Anaza Kaleidoscope Special, Zanac, Gradius and Hype were MSX1 games (most with 32 Kbytes) that gave me much fun as Aleste or Space Manbow. Besides, games like Usas, King Kong could easily have been programmed as MSX1 games with little difference in terms of gameplay.

Question is whether visual quality adds to the gameplay experience. One can say 'can be done on msx1 with less stunning graphics' for about all games, but does that really make it relevant? We can as well make a birdview RPG in screen 0 then. Let's for a change not talk about technical genres but about atmosphere, storyline etc.

Graphics can improve a game... E.g.: Vaxol is a complete waste of time, but if the MSX1 had sprites with zoom in hardware, it could be a much better game. But if Vaxol had the same blocky gameplay with 24 bit graphics, it would be the same piece of garbage.

But about atmosphere, storyline and most important: gameplay... I´d like to see...

- Video (even three or five seconds with 1/4 of the screen) in an intro. I don´t care if the game would need 256 Kbytes instead of 32 for that.

- David Whittaker, the legendary musician for 8 bits, used a nice technique for PC Speaker songs: Three or four virtual sound channels alternating quickly to give the illusion of more channels in a single speaker. Since the MSX has three different audio channels, programmers could use this technique in two PSG channels to create the illusion of six channels at the same time, and use the remaining channel for sound FX.

- An action game in Filmation. I wonder how a game like "Crusader no Remorse" (PC, DOS, check Youtube for a video) would be for the MSX, of course with monochrome graphics.

- A bird-eye view racing game. Lotus is sure impressive from a technical point of view, but its collision detecion sucks, and it´s too slow for my taste. Personally I think that an 8x8 scroll is not bad, as long as the sprites still move smoothly (F1 Spirit and Magical Kid Wiz are nice examples). IMHO, an 8x8 scrolling could have quite impressive graphics and more complex tracks. Perhaps even a game like Overtop (Neo-Geo) could be done.

- An one on one Beat´em Up. Both players would be 2x1 sprites, and when fightinhg, they would occupy 2x2 sprites (no flickering). Since both would still be small, gameplay could be like Pit Fighter (various systems), Death Blade/Mutant Fighter (arcade) or perhaps in the style of Rave Master (GBA).

- A side scrolling beat´em up. All them for the MSX suck. But a Dragonninja or Rygar clone with sprites just like the previous item would be impressive, and flickering would not be much of a problem if the game had a maximum of four possible enemies per line.

IMHO, the problem with newer MSX games is not in the MSX1 limitation. The problem is that I´ve not seen a game that is different and good, even with its limitations. For instance, Lotus is a most welcome addition in a genre that has no decent game for the MSX, but it´s still far from perfect gameplay. I liked Mr. Mole, but it´s still a breakout game. Caos Begins is excellent (my favorite game), but has no innovation (not an original concept, but very well implemented). IMHO the best recent game released for the MSX is Majikazo. Good graphics, sound and gameplay, and somehow different from the other MSX games we know. It reminds me of Bomberman or Pengo, but it´s too different to be compared to them.

Just my two cents. I'd like to see more MSX games, whether MSX and MSX2 (even 2+ and TR, why not). The problem is that there are few MSX developers. And I'm not sure that, by including a separate category for MSX2 in MSXdev, more games would be released. Mainly because a very reduced number of games would be presented at each category. Allowing MSX2 and MSX into the same category should be better. Assuming, of course, that the jury would evaluate the game graphics of each game taking into account the machine limitations.

However... as a new MSX developer, I must say that the first generation is more appealing to beginners such as me. So, it is more appealing to attract new people to the scene. As most of us have some background on software developement, it is easier for us to develop for a simpler machine where the difficulty is the program itself. And that's the main difficulty when programming the first generation: the code. However, in MSX2 and newer generations, the machine itself is a bit more difficult to understand. More functionalities to be learnt. More memory requirements for graphics and data, thus, maybe need for some memory management routines. Need for MegaROM (thus, understanding mappers). And even MegaROM may be too small for MSX2, so, need for Disk (thus, understanding disk support and so on). Of course, I know, it is not really difficult to learn MSX2, but it is more complex than MSX1. Thus, from this point of view, first generation is a much better option.

And... I have to say this... I, personally, love the first generation graphics. Very good games are still to be done on the first generation. But this, of course, is simply a personal appreciation.

Finally, I completely agree that MSX2 has, graphically, more options, more colors, bitmapped modes, multi color sprites, ... But... it is a powerful concept into a slow VDP. It is very difficult (even impossible) to take full proffit of the bitmapped modes and have smooth moving games. Let's think about it... Fray, for instance, is visually impressive... and very playable... when you are in towns. In pure arcade stages, it moves badly. Xak III is another example. Sure, there is Dragon Slayer VI, but there is no action there. And we have USAS or Vampire Killer, of course, but XLS demonstrated that this kind of games can be perfectly done on the first MSX generation.

I guess it's a matter of taste and how much you are ready to compromise for the sake of the retro feeling. For me, I never enjoyed any little bit of Migical Kid Wiz because of the scroll and the odd feeling it gives to its control. It may not have been as pronouced with games like F1 spirit but unless you are going really fast (read more than 8 pix scrolling), the game controls still had an odd feeling. I'm sorry but that kind of scrolling makes me want to have a seizure more than enjoying the game. And the same can be said about sprites flickering.

The only games I enjoyed on the MSX1 were games that didn't have sprite flickering or blocky scrolling, with the exception of the NEMESIS serie (I guess it's because the scroling didn't play a major role in the gameplay itself), and perhaps Knightmare (but I still wished the scroll was smoother, even back in 1986.

You can probably create a DOOM remake in screen 1 and 5 FPS, but really, beside the fact of saying "it's been done", how much are you really going to enjoy playing it ?

I'm not opposed to games on the MSX1, but I just think to stick to what MSX 1 is good at and not try to make something technically fancy and compromise playability.

BTW,I´d like to see a game like Wolf3D, even without textured walls, monochrome, and using only 192x192 pixels.

Can I propose a special msxdev category ?
Best double standard game for msx1 and 2!!!

My idea is always that games like Kings Valley or Vampire Killer or Goonies cold be double format,
showing MSX1 or MSX2 graphic accordingly to where the ROM is plugged.

PS
Leandro, to do what you propose on the PSG you need a z80 at 50MHz
this was a relevant difference between msx and PC at that time

Artrag, I did not propose mixing it like a .mod file. I proposed something like Xenon 2 Megablast for PC. Search for it and you´ll understand. It would probably mix sounds with less speed than a demo from Bandwagon.

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I'm not opposed to games on the MSX1, but I just think to stick to what MSX 1 is good at and not try to make something technically fancy and compromise playability.

I *completely* agree with this sentence, Maggoo. But... the same has to applied to MSX2. A lot of MSX2 games try to do things that MSX2 is not meant for. Some MSX2 games try to be... let's say... SNES games. Some MSX2 games have a *player* moving at much more than 1pix/frame because software sprites are excesively used. And this is, by far, worst than having 8pix scroll.

You'll always find ppl who want their game to look better than what the specs dictate. However, you can't do more than the hardware dictates. Perhaps ppl aren't stretching the hardware, perhaps they're finally using it!

Quote:

BTW,I´d like to see a game like Wolf3D, even without textured walls, monochrome, and using only 192x192 pixels.

A sort of engine is available, the Maze demo I think. And... Doom has been ported to Spectrum

Yes, Wolf, that's right. I really think that, technically, there is a lot to be done on MSX (1/2/2+/TR), and I also think that putting the MSX hardware to its limit is a very good thing. But... as far as gameplay is not reduced. When talking about games, indeed.

Yes, Maze, and sofar it's little more than a ray-caster, and nothing more. I've yet to see it turned into a quality game I'd actually like.. and I think it'll never happen!

So, what is against having a single competition with no restrictions on MSX generation? Judge video/sound to the specs ("good gfx for an MSX1", e.g.).