On the C64 you can do lots of tricks by manipulating VIC (the videochip) registers during the time the frame is being painted. For example by fiddling with the sprite expansion register you can create sprites that are higher than the 21 (or expanded 42) pixels.

I have not progressed far enough with MSX coding to test if anything similar is possible? Can you muck about with the VDP during display and get immediate results, or is it read once during VBL and not changeable later?

sure, you can change registers each raster line and see the effects on the screen.

On msx2/2+ you can also set a line interrupt or, using polling, a line flag
at the line you want (just set it in the appropriate register)
and you can for sure set multiple line interrupts.

This allows, e.g., to set multiple video modes in the same screen, or to enable two
sprite attribute tables having 64 sprites o the screen instead of 32.
An you can magnify x2 multicolor sprites, so you get 32x32 sprites instead of 16x16.

But the zoom of the backgroung...hummm...
I do not see how to do that using bitmap mode unless on small objects

Ye olde saying: "if it looks good on MSX, it's a trick."

The trick with one background image and a vertically scrolling block in front of it that in turn contains revolving objects should also be possible on MSX2 by switching the displayed line and using two Screen 5 pages. Only thing I'm wondering is if the effect that narrows and darkens revolving objects if they get in the background is something that's computed real-time on those C64 demos, or simply prepainted and rendered by choosing the appropriate line from the appropriate page.

Artrag: are you saying that the zooming stuff is done using pure realtime computation (50 FPS!!), not another trick? I remember also seeing not only the waving, but also the zooming on an MSX demo.

@Wolf: did you think demos on other systems didn't use 'tricks'?

nope, but an MSX needs more tricks in order to have something decent..

I can assure you that if it looks good on a C64, it's also a trick. And probably not a lot more tricks than other machines of the same power, really...

Yeah, wolf_ is right, since MSX really don't allow full frame rate animations or larger updates of the screen, more tricks are needed to give the illusion of a lot going on. Unfortunately (for MSXers) some tricks that give great visual effects are easier to do on a C64.

Quote:

Pengo will be released probably next year for Paxanga Soft, wait some months. (it even has musics finally - /me grins to someone here -)

MSX2 Pengo, right? Does it use PSG or what for musics?

Please PLEASE P L E A S E P L E A S E publish it in cartridge form!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

MSX2 Pengo, right? Does it use PSG or what for musics? Please PLEASE P L E A S E P L E A S E publish it in cartridge form!!!!!!!!!

MSX2: Yes
PSG: Yes
Cartridge form: Think so

Quote:

Yeah, wolf_ is right, since MSX really don't allow full frame rate animations or larger updates of the screen, more tricks are needed to give the illusion of a lot going on. Unfortunately (for MSXers) some tricks that give great visual effects are easier to do on a C64.

The way the MSX works is probably what gives the MSX its feeling, and the MSX games are somehow constrained by these "limitations". That's the magic of 80's computers: different capabilities and, thus, different game concepts to profit from those capabilities.

I wonder if the mentioned tricks were used in the 80's. Probably these C64 (and Speccy or Amstrad) tricks were unknown/untested in the golden age. So, it is likely that the MSX was designed to provide a straightforward and easy way to program what was common in the 80's.

Also... being this the MSX Dev thread (thus, related to gaming)... I am not sure that the kind of vissual effects you mention would improve the playability of games. They are excellent for the demo scene, but not sure about gaming.

There are some really cool modern C64 games that are very impressive. My favorite is probably Pinball Dreams. I'm hoping to see this game ported to MSX1 too, but that's a big challenge (an MSX2+ port would be quite easy though)

About pinball dreams, as the scroll is only vertical, IMHO an msx2 and some audio extension (e.g. scc) would be enough

Pinball dreams, now wouldn't that be a nice use case for a Screen 8 game?

Quote:

Quote: MSX2 Pengo, right? Does it use PSG or what for musics? Please PLEASE P L E A S E P L E A S E publish it in cartridge form!!!!!!!!! MSX2: Yes PSG: Yes Cartridge form: Think so

Thank so

I do hope that hopefully both TOMB OF GENGHIS KHAN and "Karoshi´s" Dr. Mario get finished!!

I just love graphics of that Jonny Jones sequel!! And really want to play NES like game too!

How´s Knightmare III going?