Several MSX-1 games can detect if they are run on MSX2 and usually make use of MSX2 palette.

What I am pointing to, it would be nice if developers would add option to run game in original MSX-1 way even it is run on MSX2. I mean, that pressing certain key during boot would disable MSX2 detecting and make game run in SCREEN 1 or 2.

Or then make first screen like this:

PLEASE SELECT

ANY F-KEY - MSX-1 GAME
SPACE - MSX2 GAME

Of course I appreciate the idea of using MSX2 palette and sprites, but I also like to see MSX-1 games the way they should be, even if I run them on MSX2.

Some games have option to "emulate" MSX-1 colours, but result is not that good, me thinks.


It would make life somewhat easier, as I wouldn´t have to carry MSX2 away from table and dig and find MSX-1 and carry it to the table instead just to play certain MSX-1 game.

The problem with running an MSX1 game on an MSX2 without a custom palette to approximate the MSX1 palette, is that the default MSX2 palette sucks for this. You actually *need* a customized palette there to have the feeling you're watching an MSX1 game. The MSX2 colors are very bright and the two MSX2 yellows are actually more like skincolors on MSX1. This means that drawing correctly colored persons on MSX1 will suck big time on MSX2 without a modified palette. Often enough I see screenshots on the net from MSX1 games made in an MSX2 setting/emulation. These yellow faces are dead ugly!

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Several MSX-1 games can detect if they are run on MSX2 and usually make use of MSX2 palette. What I am pointing to, it would be nice if developers would add option to run game in original MSX-1 way even it is run on MSX2.

solution is simple: buy an msx1

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The problem with running an MSX1 game on an MSX2 without a custom palette to approximate the MSX1 palette, is that the default MSX2 palette sucks for this. You actually *need* a customized palette there to have the feeling you're watching an MSX1 game. The MSX2 colors are very bright and the two MSX2 yellows are actually more like skincolors on MSX1. This means that drawing correctly colored persons on MSX1 will suck big time on MSX2 without a modified palette. Often enough I see screenshots on the net from MSX1 games made in an MSX2 setting/emulation. These yellow faces are dead ugly!

Wolf, what are you saying here ? I can see the output of both msx1 and 2 machines, and i really do not see any difference...
Plus i do not understand why v9938 should have a default palette different from tms.
Yamaha engineers had done a huge efforts to maintain compatibility in all way with the old vdp and failed with the palette?

There can be only two possibilities:
1) the v9938 cannot match the tms palette, and in that case there is nothing that one can do. even manually adjusting does not work
2) the v9938 can match the tms palette. If this is true, there is no reason to start with default values different from tms palette, so there is no reason to adjust at runtime.

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solution is simple: buy an msx1

I have them already. But it would be much easier, if I don´t have to move one machine off from the table to try it on another machine, just because of colours.

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Wolf, what are you saying here ? I can see the output of both msx1 and 2 machines, and i really do not see any difference...

Run an emulator, emulate a real msx1 (e.g. a Toshiba HX10) vs an MSX2 (e.g. a 8250).

Then run something like this (untested), and make a screenshot of both results:

10 screen 2
20 for t=0 to 15
30 line(t*16,0)-(t*16+15,15),t,bf
40 next t
50 a$=input$(1)

Then tell me whether you see a difference or not, especially regarding the yellows.

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Yamaha engineers had done a huge efforts to maintain compatibility in all way with the old vdp and failed with the palette?

Regarding the palette they did a piss-poor job!

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1) the v9938 cannot match the tms palette, and in that case there is nothing that one can do. even manually adjusting does not work

It can't, for some RGB values you'd wish for an extra step between steps. Perhaps 4-bit components would've done a better job. In any case, one can do a decent approximation.

And apart from you trying that piece of BASIC code, have a look at this:

MSX1


Default MSX2

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Run an emulator, emulate a real msx1 (e.g. a Toshiba HX10) vs an MSX2 (e.g. a 8250). Then run something like this (untested), and make a screenshot of both results: 10 screen 2 20 for t=0 to 15 30 line(t*16,0)-(t*16+15,15),t,bf 40 next t 50 a$=input$(1)

I'm speaking about true machines connected to the same tv. no difference. unfortunately i cannot make a screen shot....

That your TV may not show the difference clear enough doesn't mean there *is* no difference.

At least on emulators color 6 and 8 seems very different too, but I agree, the differences on yellows, specially when used for skin, produces to the most annoying effects. BTW not having a real msx1 I cannot do comparisons on real HW

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That your TV may not show the difference clear enough doesn't mean there *is* no difference.

Wolf, it's not a 40 years old valve TV, It's a flat display one http://uk.shoppydoo.com/price-lcd_plasma_televisions-lg_rz-14la60.html

More on that: the MSX BASIC manual from Gradiente in the 80´s had all the colors *printed* on it´s cover.
Both Yellows match pretty close the ones on the "msx2" screenshot. I never saw those MSX1 tones before...
(Okay, I´m speaking on PAL machines, maybe on NTSC it´s different somehow?)

Also, the colors used on BrMSX should be pretty accurate - I remember RicBit telling me he actually measured the VDP output to get the most precise colors he could...

A small comparison using Boxboy (pictures taken with BrMSX)... the only difference is that MSX2 colors are brighter, but not something that big as shown on those prior screenshots (I actually prefer the brighter pal heh)

Different chips different output/modulation.

That's not MSX1, SLotman, or was it post-processed after measuring to have 3 bits per r/g/b channel? (which is wrong, MSX1 colours aren't digitally generated).