MSX2 upgrade available for One Chip MSX

if I was delaying my preorder just because i needs to have the money first.... now i see more FAR to buy the 1CM...

Is the famous cable needed to link the OCM with a PC in order to reload the OCM when things go wrong included in this msx2 upgrade kit as well?

The ultimate package would indeed be: msx2, 'the' cable, all together for 189 euro incl. VAT

Weird way to promote "open source hardware".

We already knew that the MSX2 upgrade would not be free (at least the "official" one presented by ASCII):

http://www.bazix.nl/faq_will_the_msx2_upgrade_be_free.html

BTW, what about "...which will include a special cable needed to perform the upgrade safely..."?.

The question is: if someone developes another MSX2 upgrade, can he/she distribute it freely?

Why an usb cable. Since there are no drivers for supporting external devices via usb, seems that not quite necessary to let your possible purchase work

or a save solution a mmc card...

Can that upgraded be included in the assembling then? as in: default price increases with 3000 yen..

I'm afraid that's what they call 'piracy'

Actually I think, that at least one of the reasons for 3000 yen price is that MSX2 ROM's are not free.

@Ro, you're not paying for something you've already got.. Or do you have MSX2 vhdl code for the OCM laying around somewhere?

@BiFi, apples and oranges... You can come up with a better comparison than that one can't you?

Anyway, 22 fucking euro's for a MSX2 version. That's a real nice deal ASCII proposes here IMHO. But we know by now that ASCII can't do anything right in the eyes of some beholders...

BART WROTE: Anyway, 22 fucking euro's for a MSX2 version. That's a real nice deal ASCII proposes here IMHO. But we know by now that ASCII can't do anything right in the eyes of some beholders...

No, is not a FUCKING NICE DEAL

I was talking about the upgrade to MSX2. The cable I was referring to stems from http://www.bazix.nl/faq_will_the_msx2_upgrade_be_free.html

Yes there is quite a lot of games and software for MSX2 , not having MSX2 out of the box , one miss most of MSX spirit.
About paying 22 euros for MSX2 , it oculd be nice if the cable was an option of the bundle
...
I took a look at the MSX ESE project homepage, there one can download the VHDL file for V9938.
I believe it may be plugged inside OCM VHDL instead of MSX1 VDP.

man! is just the source code... maybe an outdated version

but is not too easy... you needs to compile it with all other parts and all the parts needs to fits in a scheme....

I tend to agree. Maybe adding 10 extra euros to the OCM package, but still....MSX2 support is kinda essential and selling it as an MSX1 config isn't the smartest move. They should have expected people nagging about the MSX1. And I wonder if offering an MSX2 update on the very same day as the release of the OCM itself just doesn't make things worse....

And what's still nagging me is the August 20th deadline. I expect they will extend the deadline until further notice. What other options do they have? They can't just produce the device anyway, what was all the 5000 fuzz about then?

Still, I don't really mind, I want the hardware and those updates are coming our way anyway. This is a great project which I can only be fucking optimistic about. It's just the way they are marketing the whole thing. I have doubts about that. It's all about feelings, isn't it? Maybe it's a cultural thing. I wonder if in Japan, potential customers agree with some of the critisism.

If they skip the MSX1 part and make it MSX2 right away for the same cash, the pre-order might increase a lot.

I don't know about japanese cultures, but in some cultures customers are but dumb drones which should eat what they're given. If the japanese culture is like that (which i think it is, otherwise there would already be 100% specs available right away), they're having a narrowminded marketing strategy, cuz on this one they can't do without foreign countries.

Forgot the exact price of 'the cable', but really, it's a rediculous price. No one can deny that.
And really, what the heck is this MSX2 making the costprice rise 20 euros. It should have been implemented in the costprice right away. Isn't it just normal that people who buy hardware get free firmware updates all the time? And doesn't a software update come free all the time either? Yup, cuz you payed for that initially.

My guess is they calculated the wrong price in the beginning. Not quite handy.

Still it's great that the device is being produced (make that an 'if', cuz Ascii's strategy and demands made me rather sceptic), but i'll pass... I already have an MSX

In my optics, they'd better do it this way:

- Go for MSX2 right away
- Use a standard cable for connection to PC for updates (why not that USB port, cuz it's there already)
- Raise the sales price to 210 euros before mentioning this 189 (the just were too narrow on that)

That'd wipe out quite some scepticism, and pull way more customers to their side of the line already.

euh, those names... are in some database I guess? As in: automated mailing? Or is some office-kid manually sending all the 2600 emails one by one?

is just time...

and obviously not that ammount of money....

Wolf: sending everybody an email doesn't take that much time, however processing all answers is very time consuming.

The only reason I see for selling an upgrade to MSX2 separately instead of delivering MSX2 compatibility out of the box is that they want to make some money for all the extra effort they've done to make it all possible, which is very reasonable in my opinion (it's a business, it's not for charity).

There is some 'thing' added to the ASCII One Chip information page.....The casing?

sure snout.... but... why you talks in third person?

i don't care, but sounds weird

aaahhh , ok Rikusu!

anyway I ....am sad because is like... if I can't buy a 1cm is like I am out .... And I want to buy one... but my budget within one month don't allowme to buy one... just this morning I did the accountant to check if i can or not.

btw,it seems that MSX2 ugrade kit things disappeared from OCM site.

I imagine a number of factors

well an msx2 upgrade on mmc would also be possible a 128mb card is not so much
about 22 euros?

atleast that you want to use your original MSX2 and the 1CM at the same time....

legally you can do any copy that you want... but, you can use it one time at once....

Is an MSX2 ROM the same as MSX2 VHDL ?

The MSX2 ROM is not similar to MSX2 VHDL. The ROM is 'just' the internal software (BIOS), the VHDL code describes the entire circuitry of all the chips implemented in the MSX2 computer and the way they are connected to each other, in order to let the FPGA chip function as if it was a real MSX2 computer. Either way, even the ROMs used in the OCM are slightly different from the original MSX2 ROMs. Or does your MSX2 computer come with an internal MegaSCSI, DOS2, Secure Digital and FAT16 support?

As for Microsoft: I'm sorry to disappoint you flyguille, but -representing MSX Association- Bazix is entitled to sell (and sublicence) products that contain the MSX System ROMs and/or use the MSX trademark worldwide. There's nothing illegal about it.

or the OCM come with a new MSXBIOS completely programmed from zero?

I asks that because the last thing about that I readed is that the MSXA can't to sell the MSXBIOS outside of japan.... IIRC.

but maybe i am wrong and the thing is different....

can you snout as represetant of BAZIX explain a bit?

ahh.. thanks by the answer.... I never heard about a deal ... so, GREAT!!!

And then again....when I was a kid for SURE the msx costed way more then 200 euros.
And that was a simple msx2,8220. No diskdrives no nothing.
Sadly,the OCM won't come with the built in "MSX DESIGNER BY A COENE" as the 8220 did,
apart from that...
anyone tell me where to get BRAND NEW MSX computers for only 200 bucks.
Seeing the ridiculous amount of money people in Spain ask on E-bay for some lame msx1,
200 bucks seems peanuts to me if you want to buy a new msx.

the real msx is msx2??? (why didn't get the msx2 by it's release a better soundchip then only psg????) music-module inside would have be nice!!!! But I think that was too expensive???
I like the msx2,but 7mhz and another soundchip would have been nice at that time

A little correction :

MSX-AUDIO and MSX-MUSIC are both created by Yamaha and Panasonic.

But I agree with you : MSX-AUDIO is better than MSX-MUSIC.

Not better, not worse, but different.

Microcabin's music simply dies on the MSX-Audio! Generally I've the idea that the FM-Pac fits games better.. some cuteness-factor orso..

It's the extra operator-shape on the FM-Pac that does the trick.

offtopic: benoit did you ask dvik about bluemsx on a laptop???

Everything on MSX is late .. less gfx-power compared to competitors, less cpu, less memory.. less, less.. Other systems were more expensive perhaps, but also better. If ppl buy the better system en mass (even if it's purely for the office), then it becomes cheap.. it's simply how the market works..

Dunno about the music tho, at least the standard PSG is outdated, but I wouldn't want to replace the FM-Pac with the Amiga's 4 mod-channels for example. Esp. with the Moonsound I've the idea that music is the era in which the MSX runs circles around other retros..

At least the MSX2 should've had *some* advanced soundchip standard, being either a MusMod or an FM-Pac ..

thanks benoit for sending the mail to dvik

dunno, iirc only sample-channels .. or soft-FM perhaps, but even the PSG can do that, in 12bit, as long as the z80 can cope

Amiga just had 4 8bit sample channels. 2 on the left channel and two on the right. Max sampling rate of 11Khz IIRC. So it was really rather limited. Although some apps used 8 or more channels with mixing (however far that gets you with 8bit/11KHz). Although some were able to do miracles with it though.

Wolf: No 12bit, way less because of duplicates.

Could be, it's been at least a decade since I've seen one. I can't quite remember whether the 11KHz was the sampling frequency or the sound frequency.

I think we need to be reasonable. Of course I would like OCM to come with the cable, but if it is that expensive, we can't expect a commercial company to ship his product with it without raising the price of the product. That said, I believe msx users would find a way to have a cheaper cable, maybe building one themselves. I understand MSXA position about the cable, but I will never understand why not giving the MSX2 upgrade kit to those that already bought OCM. We all know that OCM should be (at least) MSX2 since the beginning. As a matter of fact, a MSX2+ or even a Turbo-R would be ok as the first release of OCM, since these are all classic MSX. What should be charged as an upgrade, in my opinion, would be things that weren't available at the time ASCII dropped MSX, like MoonSound, V9990, advram, an enhanced z80 or VDP, and of course, the vhdl code to the new MSX3 standard. That's what I believe msx users would expect as an upgrade kit. People complain about the actual status of OCM because we thought ASCII would release not just a new MSX1 model, but the sucessor of Turbo-R. I remember some years ago that people quoted Nishi saying that 'ASCII could make a 100 mhz z80'. People were excited about the project because it would bring us new stuff, not just old stuff packaged as a new computer. Ok, I know it's FPGA, and I believe it's cool, but let's face it: most people doesn't want to deal with hardware, they just want to use the MSX, make softwares, play games and that's it. If we had so many pepole able to code vhdl as MSXA may believe, we would have many OCM's available already, but the fact is that up until now,I just heard about 2 projects: ESE and one from Dal Poz. At least to me, that fact shows that, although there are msx users who will be able to modify VHDL code that comes with OCM, it's a really small number, and most people will depend on MSXA to upgrade OCM. And if just a MSX2 kit costs around US$ 30, I don't know how much would cost the upgrade to a MSX3 with all the things we thought it would be available in OCM at first place...

mars2000you: note that MSX-MUSIC was still optional in the MSX2+ standard and only became part of the standard with the turboR.

Anyway, I agree that the MSX2 stuff is really important. Important enough to postpone the deadline (if possible) and ask everyone who ordered if they want to have the MSX2 option from the start. I also believe this will greatly increase the number of preorders!

</my opinion>

Funny Manuel... I doubt MSX-MUSIC becoming part of the standard, but you could call it that way since the only existing turboR types (which are just 2) actually have MSX-MUSIC built in...