MEGA-Challenge #02: Evolution 2

Marco Rossin has sent us the second entry to the MSX Resource Center MEGA Challenge: Evolution 2. Based on his 3D vector graphics engine as used in E3D Evolution he has created a 3-minute gallery of unfilled and filled vector graphics in a 64x48 window for MSX turboR and optional MSX-MUSIC/MSX-AUDIO support.

www.msx.org/downloads/screenshots/871_1.png

www.msx.org/downloads/screenshots/871_2.png

In the MSX Resource Center MEGA-Challenge you can win a brand new One Chip MSX computer by submitting either an MSX2 game, a history-themed game/demo or a game/demo that only uses 64x48 pixels. You can find out all details on this challenge right here. You can send in your entries to mega@msx.org until June 27th, 2008, 23:59 CET - the day on which MSX celebrates its 25th anniversary.

Relevant link: Evolution 2

Comments (17)

By hap

Paragon (1714)

27-06-2007, 20:14

Good thing you changed your mind and released your program
(in the other thread it looked like you were implying to cancel it completely)

By Google

By Vincent van Dam

Champion (512)

27-06-2007, 20:16

Great! I am glad you released it too, the challenge could use this possitive swing!

By Ivan

Scribe (8942)

27-06-2007, 21:00

Now I realize how small is a 64x48 window. It is difficult to create amazing demos in such small portion of the screen.

By dvik

Prophet (2173)

27-06-2007, 21:03

Nice demo Good to see another entry!

By snout

Ambassador (13693)

27-06-2007, 21:03

It is and this demo is a great attempt already! I like the lighting-effects, especially on the cubes and the L-shaped ('tetris brick') object. Nicely done! Looking forward to see more 64x48 action!

By SolidEric

Champion (323)

27-06-2007, 21:28

Nicely done!!

By Huey

Prophet (2132)

27-06-2007, 21:51

Nice one. Didn't expect this kind of gem for the 'small' category.

By turbor

Champion (264)

27-06-2007, 22:03

He isn't the only 64x48 entry I can assure you.
Now let's see how fast my mail can be processed and a new 64x48 entry shows up

By Prodatron

Paragon (1214)

28-06-2007, 14:31

Interesting, this demo is using the multipliation/division commands of the R800, right? Just wonder how fast it would be on an MSX2 with alternative routines for these operations.

By MicroTech

Champion (304)

28-06-2007, 15:06

Thanks to everybody

I think the best 3D stuff is inside "3072" in the screen 12 part (really cool if in R800mode)... and with clipping!

@ Prodatron:
Moltiplication is performed with R800's mul instructions - division, when possible, uses the "trick" of multipling by a (precalculated) inverse of divisor.
If you wish I can compile and send you a Z80 version of Evolution 2 (I think there is a strong difference anyway)

By Manuel

Enlighted (7237)

28-06-2007, 16:33

Snout and Wolf: while you might think that making things for 64x48 is easier, there's also a drawback which MicroTech just mentioned: clipping! And this can be quite complex and troublesome and cost some performance as well.

By Prodatron

Paragon (1214)

28-06-2007, 20:05

@Microtech: Thanx for the offer, that would be very interesting for me. My email is jmika at prodatron dot net. I wonder what takes the most time with this reduced resolution: The vector calculation or the painting? I guess it's very hard to write a fast triangle fill routine for the VDP...

By wolf_

Ambassador (9124)

28-06-2007, 20:38

manuel: ofcoz, it wasn't made to be easier, but to have smoother and new effects. While I don't know all the details, but what about using masking sprites?

By turbor

Champion (264)

28-06-2007, 22:33

I really like the attention that has been put into the movement of the objects. And of course there is a nice variety of objects. I really enjoyed the show

@prodatron: I'll rip the filled triangle routine out of my previous 3D engine for you and mail it to you, since the VDP is drawing the lines while you calculate the new endpoints for the next line segment it is reasonably fast. And you could of course try HMMV instead of LINE when drawing horizontal/vertical lines, you might gain a little depending on the length of the lines.

By NYYRIKKI

Prophet (2771)

01-07-2007, 22:11

Somehow I always like vector graphics. I enjoyed watching this...

By ARTRAG

Prophet (3876)

02-07-2007, 13:53

Finally I tried it!! Very good ! Well done!!
And thanks for releasing it
Now some questions about the implementation:
Do you use precomputed data ?
What is the best engine between E2 and turbor's one for filled 3d?
It could be nice to do some benchmarking (#fps vs #filled triangles etc)
Maybe a new engine could take the best of the two...

By MicroTech

Champion (304)

03-07-2007, 09:45

Finally I tried it!! Very good ! Well done!!

And thanks for releasing it
Thanks to you and Danilo for the music, I think bgm has a really strong impact on the "feeling" a demo can give!

Do you use precomputed data ?
Only a look-up-table containing the reciprocal of the first (most used) 255 integers.
All the remaining is calculated in "real time".

What is the best engine between E2 and turbor's one for filled 3d?
Nice question
I didn't see turbor's engine sources, I imagine turbor's is faster:
- it is completely written in optimed assembly (faster)
- it performs all the math in 8bit (faster but limited)
- the "camera" can only be translated (not rotated) (less calculations to do: faster)

On the counterpart E3D:
- is written 95% in ASCII C and 5% asm (probably could run 2 or 3 times faster if completely rewritten in asm)
- it performs all the math in 16 (32) bit math using R800 mul instructions (less limits than turbor's but only for R800)
- camera can be translated and rotated (more calculations but, IMHO, cooler )

It could be nice to do some benchmarking (#fps vs #filled triangles etc)
Maybe a new engine could take the best of the two...
I like the idea of "creating a standard 3D library" for MSX... but who will use it?

@Prodatron:
Did you receive my mail?

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