Super Puzzle Fighter 2X for MSX1

Eduardo A. Robsy and Jon Cortazar have teamed up and together, as the SPF2X Team, they are currently developing an MSX1 version of the 1996 Capcom game Super Puzzle Fighter 2X.

On their dedicated website you can already see some screenshots and read some interesting information about the technical aspects of porting the game to MSX1. The game is set to be released this year.

Relevant link: Super Puzzle Fighter 2X for MSX1

Comments (40)

By ricbit

Master (157)

01-01-2004, 15:50

Great graphics for an MSX 1 !

By Google

By diabolus

Resident (54)

01-01-2004, 16:01

Looking REALLY GOOD!!
2004 starts very nice, already a new game in development for our beloved machine.

By GuyveR800

Prophet (3739)

01-01-2004, 20:41

I don't want to spoil the party, because these graphics look REALLY REALLY good!

BUT!!!
Was CAPCOM notified of the use of their LOGO?
Stealing someone else's work and then placing a fake copyright message does not make it any more legal. In fact, it makes it more illegal, because you can't make something and then put someone else's copyright on it.
Also, I see the MSX logo used, for which probably no permission was asked either, since this page is just about stolen graphics, stolen gameplay and stolen characters!

Really, I see so much talent, but why waste it on illegal stuff?! Why not CREATE something for yourself! Use your OWN imagination, in stead that of others. Make something NEW and ORIGINAL, PLEASE!!!!!

By Ivan

Scribe (8942)

01-01-2004, 20:55

I like remakes a lot.

If they are not going to sell it, what's the problem? It's pure FAN work.

By Maggoo

Paladin (834)

01-01-2004, 21:56

This seems very promising, can't wait to see the game in action !

By GuyveR800

Prophet (3739)

01-01-2004, 23:00

"If they are not going to sell it, what's the problem? It's pure FAN work. "
Not selling, doing fan work is FINE. But then don't pretend to be legal!! No false (c) messages etc...

By Ivan

Scribe (8942)

01-01-2004, 23:46

I've found an online version of the game. Check it out:

http://www.capcom.com/online_games/spf/

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1295)

02-01-2004, 08:48

I have had to remove all screenshots, images, logos, etc... from the page, "since this page is just about stolen graphics, stolen gameplay and stolen characters!" . There will be no public shots/news until the final release of the game, so no one can blame us for coding our old MSX. It is sad to find this type of reactions in your own community, but we will be strong and continue working in the project until it is finished.

Thanks everyone for the support!.

El Viejo Archivero
http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/spf2xmsx/

By Sylvester

Master (145)

02-01-2004, 10:43

Thanks GuyveR800 !

By snout

Ambassador (13693)

02-01-2004, 11:28

It's a shame the (obviously highly talentend, because the screenies looked awesome) developers of this game took this rigorous steps and GuyveR gets the blame. I feel I should back him up here, since GuyveR is simply addressing a problem I discussed in the avoid ripped GFX and music topic. Simply put: the bigger the MSX Revival gets, the more likely you _could_ get in trouble with ports of computer games to MSX platforms. I would not want to see any MSX user get in trouble because of coding for MSX. That's why I posted that forum thread. If you avoid ripped content, you know you are safe.

Of course the 'hey, MSX can do that too!' effect is cool, and everyone is free to code whatever he wants. But the way things are going now with the MSX Revival, I would not be surprised if someone at least gets an angry email or a serious warning in the future. I know for sure MSX Resource Center did receive some angry emails in the past. In most cases, all you have to do is ask for permission to the original copyright holders if you want to use ripped contents, or implement an exact gaming idea/name. But, with only a little more efforts, you can create new graphics and music (which is even more fun to do) and change the gameplay a bit, add some nice extra's and come up with a completely new, completely legal based-upon game.

By Sylvester

Master (145)

02-01-2004, 13:17

Well, I can understand the developers. They way Guyver talks is rude (snout: he is not simply addressing the problem), and it's not the first time he does this. Sometimes I wonder what the role of Guyver is in the MSX community, most of the times he is complaining. Isn't it about software then it's about websites. And when I don't see that stupid remarks of him here, I see them on the MSX Mailinglist (people who are calling other people 'asshole' are not populair by me).

About the game, it's a MSX remake, then you are suppossed to have the same graphics, same game play, same sound. And maybe they will ask permission to Capcom, since it's not released yet. It where just screenshots (which we can't see anymore now )

By ro

Prophet (3591)

02-01-2004, 13:59

Sylvester, first congrats with the great work!

You have to understand that beside Guyver can be rude and to the point he's a good fellow with his heart on the right place (regarding to MSX) There's always some guy/girl/person pointing out flaws and legal stuff etc. It's a dirty job, but some one.. oh, well you get the picture.
We all had our share with this guy (hell, I even got into a flaming show once or twice hehe) but he's merely saying "do a great job a bit better and you will rule".

good luck. ro

By snout

Ambassador (13693)

02-01-2004, 14:31

Indeed. I'm not saying that I would express myself as GuyveR did and does every now and then, but saying he's just flaming people, complaining and contributing nothing to the MSX community is just not true. Ever tried GEM? Or tniASM?. Where do you go if you want to code for GFX9000? (msxbanzai), who started the MSX Developers IRC channel? And who is the main coder of 'TVSP'? Indeed. That are his roles in the MSX community. And he dares to have an opinion that differs from the 'general opinions'. So, getting back to what Sylvester said, all I can agree with is that his comments are sometimes better off if they were a little less direct and rude.

Anyway, lets stick to the topic now. Every MSX user is different and all have their pro's and cons. And, like any community, we can't agree on everything. So, lets try to keep things more polite in 2004, and accept the fact that we don't always agree with each other.

By Parn

Master (130)

02-01-2004, 14:39

No matter how good are someone's intents and how good are someone's points (I won't judge either), one must be at least polite. Calling someone's work "stolen", "fake", "ripped" and "illegal" is clearly an aggression. Anyone would be offended. If someone REALLY wants to help and is concerned with copyright questions, he/she really should take a smarter approach. Otherwise, this is only destructive criticism.

I've seen it before, tho. More power to Jon and Eduardo!

By SLotman

Paragon (1107)

02-01-2004, 15:08

viejo_archivero:

You shouldnt give a F*CK about those comments. (Sorry for that everyone, just the way I feel)

It is YOUR game, YOUR page and YOUR MSX!

I ask you, PLEASE put the page back as it was! You were showing AMAZING graphics CONVERSION, and the technique you used by coloring the background and overlapping it with sprites to make the "outline" of the chars, is brilliant! And it was even better to see you showing that on the page!

I just dont get why people reacts like that, I got the same reaction with RedMSX and will probably get the same thing again when I release my Carmen Sandiego game... I wonder if the authors of Sonyc got the same reaction....

And even further, it's not just "ripping" graphics... all graphics needs to be resized, repainted and some times plain re-drawn! People think that it's soo easy, and forget that this is a passionate work. People do it because they want, and because they love msx and what to have game "X" on their plataform.

Once again, if you dont like something, and dont have anything good to say about it, then dont say nothing at all. No one is forcing you to look at the page, or to comment about it. That simple.

Obviously, good comments are allways welcome, as constructive criticism. But putting someone down just because the project isnt 100% legal... well, you got my point.

There are TONS of great games that are just begging to be ported to MSX (yes PORTED, not RIPPED!) and if you stick to this 100% legal rule, we will never play them. Or will end up playing some bad clones, which will never have the same "feeling" as the original.(even when extremely well done)

Of course, 100% legal games, are also very welcome, and that's the point: all efforts should be praised, bad or good, because MSX needs it! As it is for now, there is NO commercial MSX computer being sold, no company producing those games for MSX - so noone is being harmed by this.

It's not like capcom will loose sales on super puzzle fighter because there is an msx version.

So, please BRING THE PAGE BACK!!!!!
AND GOOD WORK - the graphics looks AMAZING!

By pitpan

Prophet (2560)

02-01-2004, 15:48

Thank you for all your support.

Patriek, please calm down. We know everything about copyrights. In fact, in my real life I am a lawyer. But hey, I do not hurt anybody making tiny games for MSX1. And, by the way, Mr. Lesparre, you are not coding an original game, are you? I know we had some differences in the past, but we both work for the MSX system. That should be stronger.

Keep MSXing!

By Fudeba

Expert (110)

02-01-2004, 16:11

Well, I was not able to see the images since the authors took them away...
And I'm very sad with the reactions caused them to take this action.
Even without seeing the images, I cannot agree with the "Copyright Freaks"
that shout angry words against anyone that tries to "port" a game from another
machine to MSX. I had always hated those spectrum conversions because they had
not the same look and feel as the original games.
I support the authors and hope they finish their work and, of course, put
their page back. On Snatcher translation I received several e-mails complaining
about the same thing but... If I had listen to them, portuguese and english
versions would never be finished.
I'm not saying that copyrights are not important. I'm just saying the MSX
"as we know it" (Z80, V99x8, PSG, OPLL...) is not a commercial computer anymore,
and even those frankenstein PC created by ASCII to run their MSX Emulator won't
change this situation.
There are only a few developments on hardware and software for our MSX. We
cannot kill them just because we are "legal idealists". This way we will kill
MSX once and for all.

By ricbit

Master (157)

02-01-2004, 16:23

I remember a story when an employee of Sega saw Sonyc in MSX Denyu Land, and actually bought a copy! You can always finish the game and then sell the finished product to the copyright holder, so they can use your software in the revival.

By Sid

Supporter (1)

02-01-2004, 17:55

Let's see... does anyone know Final Bout, Gradius III Legends, Bubble Rain or Cat n' Mouse by Imanok? or Bombaman by Team Bomba? maybe Show do Milhão (and soon Carmen San Diego) by Slotman? ALL of them contain copyrighted characters and gameplay.

Has anyone called them "stolen", "illegal" or "unoriginal"? No? Good! So why this STUPID attitude towards Puzzle Fighter alone? Of course, everyone has the right to express his opinions, but try to be a <sarcasm>_little_</sarcasm> more constructive next time...

Jon, Eduardo, don't get down, keep up the good work!

By Grauw

Paragon (1797)

02-01-2004, 18:00

EX-CUSE-ME!!! Pah, no-one asked them to remove the graphics. This is a very nice method to bring someone in discredit - remove something a lot of other people like, blame it on that someone, and people will automatically turn against him as if hell broke loose. FYI, removing ripped graphics from your page does NOT make your game any more legal, NOR did Guyver ask for it. I do not see the point in removing those graphics, except so that Guyver can take the blame!!! Dirty methods, if you ask me, instead of entering a healthy discussion.

Anyways, I really agree with Guyver here, that it is a shame so much effort is put into MSX games with barely have any original value, while the developers have proved themselves to be very talented coders. It's such a waste, why not create an *original* game? It would be so much cooler to actually see *NEW* games being made for MSX, instead of one port after the other. And there would never be any legal issues either, you don't have to be so 'low-profile' then.

Just like me, Guyver has as much right as everyone to point out his opinion on this, and honestly, I do not think the message was written in a very offensive way AT ALL. Really, read it again with your heads cooled down, it only has a little criticism and some explanation why. Next to a fair share of praise aswell. Also, the use of the words stealing and fake etc. is quite justified, because that is what is happening in this context, and those are the only proper words for it. And someone said, "all efforts should be praised, bad or good, because MSX needs it!". Does this mean critisizing lack of originality is forbidden all of a sudden? I think not!

Pitpan has a tendency to see blame in things which aren't there. We, the TVSP people, mailed him in the past in a very, very polite way (if it satisfies you, Guyver did not write any of them), and his reaction was very overheated aswell back then, as it is now. He actually forwarded our private and confidential at the time (even especially noted so) emails to the Spanish MSX Mailinglist. While pretending to be very polite to us in response. Well now isn't *that* a show of good character? Uh, NOT.

By the way, Sylvester, if you think the 'assholed' person you refer to is always very friendly - think again (12/11/2003 news item). So maybe there were more issues in the past you do not know of, which led to a somewhat stronger response than was strictly nessecary. Which, by the way, also goes for this case. So maybe you shouldn't judge so fast.

Anyways, it sickens ME that Guyver always seems to become the 'bad guy' because he has the guts to point out a somewhat different opinion. So maybe he expresses himself a bit harshly sometimes, but he does have a point. But ahwell... In the past the FutureDisc people weren't liked much for similar reasons either. I guess it's something of all times, and something some people can't look past.

~Grauw

By Grauw

Paragon (1797)

02-01-2004, 18:30

Sonyc, Final Bout, etc... Those were all created before the 'MSX revival' in Japan (and hence more commercial interest in MSX again), so it was much less of an issue back then. It would be a bit prickly if Sega was going to make an issue out of an amateur game published back in 1997, wouldn't it? Besides, not every Sega employee is very much concerned over (il)legality. By the way, even back then it was thought to be an issue... Sonyc's name was altered for copyright reasons! Which is not sufficient, ofcourse, but ahwell. About Bombaman - why are you so sure they didn't inquire about copyright issues, and got permission for it??

Oh, and another thing I forgot... "Sometimes I wonder what the role of Guyver is in the MSX community"??? Guyver *WAS* the one who went out of his way and helped Raymond solve his problems. Some people easily forget that.

About our TVSP project being 'unoriginal' aswell - sure, we fully agree! We are making a port of a GBA game, and that doesn't inspire much creativity (well, our coding is very creative ). But! We *do* create a port legally endorsed by the copyright owners. Or uh... whatever .

Finally... Seeing some of the responses to Guyver's message... 'Stupid'? 'Mr. Lesparre'? 'Shut the f##k up'? 'Wanker'? Seems the pot is blaming the kettle! Do you think the term 'illegal' is more offending than calling someone a 'copyright freak'? Porting a game without the owner's permission is illegal, and the way I see it there's no other way to call it except perhaps 'not legal'. A copyright notice which means nothing? Ofcourse it is a fake one! And if you rip graphics from something, that's how it is called. In the case of TVSP, we call the process of taking graphics from the original game exactly that.

Gah, it just pisses me off.

~Grauw

p.s. too bad I can't edit news post reactions .

By pitpan

Prophet (2560)

02-01-2004, 18:43

I'm Robsy again. I do not want to continue this argue anymore. The decision of putting off-line the page was taken after Mr. Lesparre reaction. It is not his fault, because was he says is TRUE: copyright protects everything. We will continue the development, of course, and we will not earn any money with our MSX1 projects. The MSX1 community is absolutely outlaw and minoritary.
But sometimes I think that Mr. Lesparre and me have serious personal differences than in most cases push us to be a bit more unpolite that we should.
For example: MSXdev'03 results newspost was quickly moved out of the main page. GURU LOGIC passwords were published in the MRC forums after hacking the ROM by a "ghost user" that doesn't exist now. Is this a war? Of course it is not: it is just a misunderstood.

And the MRC should support the MSX community, not the former MSX companies, I think. And look at the reactions. It's true, they are quite violent, but EVERYBODY wants to see that game. Why then aren't you supporting us? At least, let us continue our work without interferences.

Thank you again for these pages, because it is obvious that they are the official meeting point for all MSX users with different points of view. Go on with the MRC, you are doing a great job, but do not forget the users: they are and they have been the sake of the MSX community, despite that never-coming Revival.

Eduardo Robsy
MSX1 user/coder

By Grauw

Paragon (1797)

02-01-2004, 19:33

Robsy, I pretty much agree with you on the first part and am glad you posted this message. However, some comments...

The MRC *is* supporting you. The MRC reports about everything, and I am 100% certain that your post being somewhat drenched in the amount of news was not intentional. As the MSX community becomes more and more active this seems to become more and more of a problem. I often notice that the 'big' news items go off the frontpage way too soon, while the 'small' ones stay on it too long. So, there's room for improvement here for the MRC, and I've been thinking of posting about it in the 'Resource center' suggestions forum.

However, that doesn't mean the MSX Resource Center admins are robots without a personal opinion. They don't voice them in the news posts, but they can discuss things and voice opinions along with everyone else in the discussion fora. By the way, in this case Snout's comments didn't so much concern with the actual news post as that he felt Guyver could use some support, with the avalanche of flames. That was the prime reason for reacting.

The passwords on the forum - that was actually a very nice message . Not very obvious, I had to think on it first before I understood what it was about (fortunately I recalled the first two passwords which brought me on the right track ), but then it made me laugh er... merrily ^_^. I don't think it was really terrible? I mean, the MCCM magazine also contained a tips & cheats section - it never made me like a game any less though. But you get very angry about it, on the forum.

Anyways, the MRC supports the MSX community AND the former (and current) MSX companies. If you have no respect at all for the companies, that probably means that in their personal views they do not always choose your side in cases of conflicting interests. "EVERYBODY wants to see that game. Why then aren't you supporting us?" - Once again, they are not robots conforming to the views of the MSX community. I do not think you can say that they are neglecting the community, or that they are 'forgetting the users'. Their news posts are always independant. And I'm not saying they (or I, for that matter) do not like you being so active for MSX, in the contrary! But we'd -rather!- like to see some really 'new' MSX games. That's all.

Greetings,

~Grauw

By ro

Prophet (3591)

02-01-2004, 19:50

Okay to sum up all this anger and make an end to this discussion (we should use the forum for that, right?!)

Guyver's GUTS has pissed of ppl before, too bad. deal with it. Most of the time he's on the right spot. But try to be a bit more polite Guyver.

Copyrights are always a good point of discussion. We should respect them.

Game remakes are cool, no doubt. If no provit will be gained, all's well!
Still respect some copyrights.

Sylv, get working on the game; it's promising to be something worth playing. Keep all critical remarks in mind and finish the game.

Now, everyone get back to bussiness instead of wasting any more precious time on this issue. RESPECT dudes.

signing off, ro (who has to get working on some stuff too.. I know.)
peace

By GuyveR800

Prophet (3739)

02-01-2004, 19:50

First, I do not control the newsflow on MRC, I'm just a regular MRC user, like you. Second, I'm not responsible for publishing those passwords. I have better things to do.

You make one HUGE thinking error: You think MSX1 community is seperate from the rest of the MSX community! Ofcourse it is NOT. MSX1 is part of the MSX community, just like the rest is.
Everything that runs on MSX1, runs on MSX2, and higher.

So if you think making an illegal (this is a normal word btw) MSX1 game, because you think MSX1 is outlawed, you are mistaken. Your ripped MSX1 games WILL hurt sales of officially licensed games on MSX2 or even MSX turboR.

As a lawyer, you should know better.

Also, you seem to be blind. You don't see the MSX Revival even if it hits you in the face!

And to those who apparently hate me: You can't read, you can't understand, you can't think, that much is clear. You are hypocrite, so bite me!

By wolf_

Ambassador (9124)

02-01-2004, 21:07

I'd say: whatever resource you use, mention the original creator if you know who made it. Even if you don't have permission to use it, at least mention the creator and don't let ppl believe that you created it. Eventually I think the companies wouldn't care, since investing time to find out what amateur used what will cost them more than they could ever $get$ from these amateurs.

hmm... makes me think of some mb tune I saw a while ago, it was ripped out of Muzax 2, and the songname was completely wiped, and replaced with the impotent-sounding 'towersoft' .. (you know Freud ?).
It must be quite old, since I saw being demo'd on a monitor on a Zandvoort or Tilburg when it still being held in the big halls. Must have been in the ROM era, since BVH and I were scouting for review stuff ..

Last point, why is this all so like Jerry Springer again? Amazing.

By msxgamesbox

Champion (393)

02-01-2004, 22:41

How stupid all this can be. Please put back the page as it was - one very stupid argument cannot make you decide to withdraw screenshots from your webpage - when 99,9% of us are eager to see what will come out of your work (I was fortunate to already view the page when I saw a message on HispaMSX mailing list) - if I had the pictures in my cache they would now already been up again... anyway... a real pity.
If you don't put them back online, I hope you will at least keep informing us about progress you make on Super Puzzle Fighter...

By mars2000you

Prophet (2650)

02-01-2004, 23:29

I completely agree with you, msxgamesbox

The next time that such a new project is revealed on a site, I'll make directly a copy of the page on my harddisk !!!

By mars2000you

Prophet (2650)

02-01-2004, 23:36

And maybe the solution for this stupid problems is very simple :

Don't inform MRC about some projects !!!!

By Grauw

Paragon (1797)

03-01-2004, 03:19

Er, yeah. Like, whatever.

Any more good ideas to improve the MSX community, mars2000you?

I am sorry but I wonder what's gotten into all of you people. Guyver's made an entirely valid remark, and in a quite proper manner, nothing wrong with it. But apparantly one cannot oust his opinion anymore in this community? Because that's apparantly what mars2000you is afraid of. Ah, yes, I know, free speech is a *****.

Anyways, this is getting nowhere, and people are pulling it more and more out of proportion, and it seems some only want to make trouble or something, put the blame on someone. Pointing fingers instantly to the person NOT responsible for taking down the graphics (unless Guyver has suddenly become a webmaster of terra.es) instead of properly discussing a difference of opinion on copyrights and the MSX Revival. Turn everything Guyver says in a bashing and flaming topic.

Anyways, you can er... 'bite me' (to use the popular slang ) too, as far as I am concerned. I've made my point, and refuse to go into further discussion with people having not enough brains to utter a single sensible thought.

~Grauw

By Grauw

Paragon (1797)

03-01-2004, 03:21

Lol, free speech just censured my er... b i t c h *grin*.

Do you msx.org people realize that in Jerry Springer, they *DON'T* beep that word away? So even to censure-happy Americans it is considered one of the less 'bad' words...

~Grauw

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1295)

03-01-2004, 12:00

After reading your reactions, I want to tell you how I see the story. My english is very bad, but I'll try hard to explain what I'm trying to say.

Well, imagine you're a Beatles' fan, you can play the piano and you love the song "Let it Be". Well, now imagine you've got a personal website, with sweet info about your family, your pets, etc... and in the "hobbies" section you include a MP3 of you playing in the piano the song "Let it be" by the Beatles. Then, the text of the link could be something like this: "Let it Be - Copyright 1970, Lennon & McCartney - Rearranged by Jon Cortazar, 2003".

Well, this is the same situation. Puzzle Fighter is a game I love ("Let it Be") and the MSX system ("the piano") will be the way to express the game. When the game is finished, then I can put this text in the link: "Super Puzzle Fighter 2X - Copyright 1996, Capcom - MSX Conversion by the SPF2X Team, 2003-2004".

Like the piano player that plays "Let it be" will not stop Beatles' sales, with this MSX1 conversion we will not stop CAPCOM's sales of their product SPF2X (available on Saturn, PC, PSX, Dreamcast & Gameboy Advance). This game is just a tribute. Like the case of "Let it Be". A tribute to Capcom and a tribute to MSX1 computers, squashed by the MSX2 in the present scene. It's only fan work, it will be freeware, and we kindly stop the proyect if someone form Capcom asks us to do so. I hope you can unterstand what I'm trying to say...

So, the man on the piano had to work hard everyday to have the song ready for uploading it in his page. But he is not "stealing" the musical notes he is looking at... even not "ripping"... he is only interpreting what he is watching in the partiture. In the same way, we must work hard (really hard, believe me) to make this thing something looking good, with our points of view focused in the different versions of the game for us to adapt (not "rip") the contents of the game. And again, the graphics of SPF2x for MSX1 do not comes straightly from any piece of code or direct rip. The time-consuming proccess of designing the characters of the game so they fit to the MSX1 VDP exigencies is a veeery slow and very boooring proccess, believe me. And the musics are recomposed/rearranged starting by zero, to get the better performance in MSX. Well, the results are very good, but we didn't steal them, we work them. And is a hard work.

In order to finish, I don't want GuyveR to get the blame or something like that. I really get offended with his words because I worked very hard in this project and "the most active MRC user of 2003" treated me like a thief... Now I see is only his opinion (an opionion I'm not agree but I respect) but not the majority's opinion. I've recieved several emails supporting us and the project and giving us strenght to finish the game. So the game project is going on (never has been stopped), and the official webpage will be uploaded soon, for you to know the news and graphics and all things related with our project.

I think it's simple. For me remaking a game, redrawing the graphics in paper, recomposing by zero the songs, etc... is merely fan work. I finally want to thank all of you, those who agrees with us and those not, because this huge post of reactions had made me think a lot about the legality matters and the remakes in the MSX scene. Sincerely, I believe that it has been very enriching for all of us...

Greetings,
El Viejo Archivero

By mars2000you

Prophet (2650)

03-01-2004, 12:14

I like very well your comparison with the remake of a Beatles song. Very clear, illustrative and poetic !

Thanks for your decision to put again online the page with your work in progress. I think that most of the MSX fans (and not only the MSX1 gamers) will appreciate it !

By GuyveR800

Prophet (3739)

03-01-2004, 14:40

Very poetic indeed, and also very legally wrong. Computer games are simply not music.

Don't blame the messenger! It's not opinion, it's fact. Sorry!

By JohnL

Rookie (23)

03-01-2004, 18:42

Au, gente boa, o msx vai voltar e vai dominar o mundo.

By sjoerd

Hero (583)