Is MSX a good platform for beginner programmer/game dev?

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بواسطة syn

Prophet (2113)

صورة syn

25-08-2010, 22:45

Thanks for the advice people!

I dont really have interest in going further with Basic because it requires a real time interpreter or whatever and i feel it will just slow the game down. Rather use a language that is compile once and never look back, or assembly. Maybe play around abit for a while but nothing more.

I havent really looked into pascal as an option. Its like C right? compile once, dont need the software to run it? I have done some pascal project on pc for my study, over 10 years ago. I dont even recall what we programmed but it wasnt anything big since it was a very short course (8 lessons, 2 hours each)

MaSaXi: What you suggesting was my plan all along! My plan for first game (it already exists in my head and I havent even downloaded a compiler yet Big smile ) will be using monochrome shapes like triangles circles rectangles etc.. cant get more basic than that. Music will be just some quick midi conversion, if it will have any music at all.

Dont worry guys I am not a totall newbie with programming .. just not an advanced one. Somewhere in between beginner and intermediate i think. I know about if-then-else, for-next, subroutines, classes/objects, psd's, variables, array's etc etc.. yes I even know how to use GOTO!!! My question was more about is assembly easy to pick up, but now I think I will use combination of C and assembly, or maybe turbo pascal.

I was gonna give it a try today but some real life stuff came up, but I think it can wait since i waited for 20 years to start already Big smile

Anyway someone mentioned ASM is that short for assembly or something else?

بواسطة SLotman

Paragon (1242)

صورة SLotman

26-08-2010, 00:39

Since people already mentioned Pascal on MSX, doesn't hurt to remind about MSXPad: You can code on your PC (with syntax highlight and much more) and generate MSX code with it. It comes with several libraries, for all kinds of stuff, and there is even a simple tutorial on how to use it here.

I havent really looked into pascal as an option. Its like C right? compile once, dont need the software to run it?
Yes. You just need MSXDOS to run the .COM files. But nothing else is required.

Both MSXPad and it's libraries were used to make games like Breakfree, Carmen Sandiego, Snow Fighters (with source), Maximum Penalty (with source), SCSIcide (with source), Dungeons and Dragons, Profanation MSX2, Atomix, MSX2+ scrolling prototype (with source) and Transylvania 3

So there's plenty that can be done with it, and plenty of info to learn from :)

بواسطة Edwin

Paragon (1182)

صورة Edwin

26-08-2010, 00:41

I can't speak for Huey, but to most of us asm is short for assembly Smile

بواسطة Huey

Prophet (2694)

صورة Huey

26-08-2010, 08:09

I can't speak for Huey, but to most of us asm is short for assembly Smile

yes.

بواسطة Huey

Prophet (2694)

صورة Huey

26-08-2010, 08:57

BTW I learned my assembly form a book from Rodney Zaks (translated to dutch) It's a big pill (600+) to read but once you have been through it you'll only need it for reference while coding.

The English version of the book is available on the net (with permission of Rodney himself) but it doesn't read as easy as a real book. So you might also keep your eye on 2nd hand websites. I bought my copy for about 3 euros incl shipping on bol.com.

Besides that you can find a lot of information on specific MSX architecture (like using the VPD) on the net. Just seach (or ask here).

بواسطة bore

Master (161)

صورة bore

26-08-2010, 09:17

Hello.

OK, there are probably people who are going to hang me for this but my recommendation is to stay away from C until you have learned at least one assembly flavour.
One of the reason that C have become popular is that it translates very well into assembly instructons (Generates efficient code.) but is way more readable. I have however noticed that some people who learned C before they started with assember have a lot of problems trying to grasp pointers (indirect addressing) and other things that become very obvious if you know assembler.

As for different processors using diffrent assemblers I wouldn't worry about that. Pretty much all processors work the same way, the different assemblers will have slightly different names on instructions and registers but if you know one processor I think you would be able to pick up a new one in less then a week. The bigger problem is the rest of the hardware that is a problem regardless of what language you choose.

بواسطة edoz

Prophet (2465)

صورة edoz

26-08-2010, 10:36

Pascal sounds fun to me i think. I know in the 90's Msx Club Enschede was verry active with pascal if i remember it correctly. Also it's sounds good that you can use your PC to make msx software. for me .. i think i gonna learn pascal .. ... so the first thing for me is setting up the software ..LOL!

بواسطة Tanni

Hero (556)

صورة Tanni

26-08-2010, 10:39

Hey, Huey, I've got the German version of that book. It's wonderful, especially the first chapters with the expanation how the Z80 works.

But you really don't need to read it form the first to the last page, it is, in part, an in depth reference for the Z80 instruction set. (These part of the book fell apart in single pages or blocks of pages because of usage.) And basic assembly routines, e.g. different multiplication routines, are provided and discussed.

Pointers are also present in Pascal, but used somewhat differently and not as often. Pointers are a basic but in most cases unnecessary concept in a higher programming languages, but very important in assembly language. They can cause much trouble if not really understood.

بواسطة Huey

Prophet (2694)

صورة Huey

26-08-2010, 12:50

Hey, Huey, I've got the German version of that book. It's wonderful, especially the first chapters with the explanation how the Z80 works.

But you really don't need to read it form the first to the last page, it is, in part, an in depth reference for the Z80 instruction set. (These part of the book fell apart in single pages or blocks of pages because of usage.) And basic assembly routines, e.g. different multiplication routines, are provided and discussed..

Yes. You're right. I never read the last parts of the book. I am being very careful with my copy as mine has some loose pages too (only at the beginning).

بواسطة syn

Prophet (2113)

صورة syn

26-08-2010, 13:12

thanks for the tip, i got the (i think legal) pdf of that book now! Big smile i skimmed through it for a bit.. looks very detailedBig smile

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