Screen 4

صفحة 5/6
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | 6

بواسطة SLotman

Paragon (1242)

صورة SLotman

16-02-2011, 19:19


- Ys III (Someone please show me how this one can be done on scr4)
- Fray (Someone please show me how this one can be done on scr4)

Ys 3 and Fray are both in screen 5 Smile


Probably, real msx2+ games (if they had existed) would have looked like Andorogynus rotated of 90°
I think it is a pity no real game has ever exploited the vdp v9958

At least F1 Spirit 3D comes to mind as a "real msx2+ game". Altough it's on screen 5, it uses the scroll registers and line interrupts to do the multiple background scroll (and I guess even the road) on the screen.

بواسطة Daemos

Paragon (2044)

صورة Daemos

16-02-2011, 19:54

@Norakomi and commodorjohn: Thanks for the great tips. I will give the comments a shot and see what will turn out from all this. Slowly but steadily I am learning the path Wink

From what I read right now. If a programmer would utilize the V9958 to its maximum extent it would be possible to build a smooth per pixel scrolling game with parralax scrolling? That sounds interesting.
When I look at Manbow it uses some kind of parralax scrolling but its a special trick because the separate layers are basicly divided over three parts of the screen. They do not really overlap. The stars look like sprites to me but they could be tiles as well.

بواسطة wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

صورة wolf_

16-02-2011, 20:38

btw, to avoid misunderstanding it would be better to speak about "Space Manbow" or "Manbow 2". Different games, different ways to build the screen. Tongue

If you're referring to Space Manbow level 1; the stars are tiles in which the pattern rotates (bit wise rotation) with a different pace than the scroll speed. These star tiles are replaced at a different pace than the map read out speed.

بواسطة ARTRAG

Enlighted (6923)

صورة ARTRAG

16-02-2011, 21:33

@Norakomi and commodorjohn: Thanks for the great tips. I will give the comments a shot and see what will turn out from all this. Slowly but steadily I am learning the path Wink

From what I read right now. If a programmer would utilize the V9958 to its maximum extent it would be possible to build a smooth per pixel scrolling game with parralax scrolling? That sounds interesting.
When I look at Manbow it uses some kind of parralax scrolling but its a special trick because the separate layers are basicly divided over three parts of the screen. They do not really overlap. The stars look like sprites to me but they could be tiles as well.

Sure, v9958 helps a lot.
The horizontal smooth scrolling is ruled by a couple of HW registers, so parallax would be just a matter or updating some area of teh screen using VDP copies.

Using v9938 has only vertical scrolling in HW, so or you stay in tile modes (space manbow is screen 4) or basically you have to use quite a lot of tricks for emulating the missing features with VDP copies

If you stay in screen 5, the VDP has sufficient blitting capabilities to do smooth scrolling (without parallax) and allow a full game. This is what manbow 2 does.
Look also these demos:
https://sites.google.com/site/testmsx/Home/smooth-horizontal-scrolling

Actually in screen 5 the VDP is fast enought to allow some slow parallax and background animations, but no full games use these capabilities (this is what I did with TotalParody).

Even if you move to screen 8 the VDP has sufficient blitting capabilities to do smooth scrolling (without parallax).
Look at screen8 demos at page:
https://sites.google.com/site/testmsx/Home/smooth-horizontal-scrolling
The VDP load is critical and some problems exist, but nothing that cannot be solved.

بواسطة sd_snatcher

Prophet (3642)

صورة sd_snatcher

16-02-2011, 23:01


- Ys III (Someone please show me how this one can be done on scr4)
- Fray (Someone please show me how this one can be done on scr4)

Ys 3 and Fray are both in screen 5 Smile

Yes, that's my point! What I'm trying to say is that it's not possible to do something like that in scr4. Smile

بواسطة RobertVroemisse

Paragon (1325)

صورة RobertVroemisse

17-02-2011, 08:53

Ofcourse it can be done If you take the screen 4 colorlimitations into account. You can even do multilayer scrolling easily. Again, check the Deva site.

بواسطة Daemos

Paragon (2044)

صورة Daemos

17-02-2011, 16:40

@Artrag

What does blitting mean?

بواسطة commodorejohn

Expert (92)

صورة commodorejohn

17-02-2011, 18:39

"Blit" is short for "bit blit," slang for "bit block transfer." In basic form, it's just copying data from one rectangular region to another, though it often can be combined with Boolean operations on the destination area (for example, using AND to apply a sprite mask and OR to put the sprite into the cleared area.) The v9938 has a simple blitter accessed with the command registers; some machines, like the Amiga, have a much more advanced blitter included.

بواسطة ARTRAG

Enlighted (6923)

صورة ARTRAG

17-02-2011, 18:55

بواسطة Daemos

Paragon (2044)

صورة Daemos

17-02-2011, 22:20

Thanks for the info. I have a feeling I have allready aplied something like that in another program in which I first copy the backround onto the old spot and copy a new piece of data where I needed it to be.

So lets say one wishes to move the backround slower then the foreground. All that needs doing is first moving the foreground by deleting it and rewriting it over and over until the backround needs to move. At that moment it should be possible to use a single pixel scroll operation and repeat the foreground cycle again. Like that it is as if the foreground is scrolling over the slower scrolling backround and all that in a per pixel fashion Smile Then each 8 pixels new data need to be written in on the incoming side of the screen. I could imagine though that it will be choppy each 8 pixels of scrolling.

صفحة 5/6
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | 6