Still copyrighted ?

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بواسطة CrazyBoss

Master (210)

صورة CrazyBoss

31-07-2007, 13:44

Will copyrighted MSX games expire, i mean will they be given to public after some years?

I dont beleive any company still sells those games?

So maybe oneday its legal to put those game online?

-Claus-

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بواسطة wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

صورة wolf_

31-07-2007, 13:53

WIKI article on Copyright

snippet from it:
In most of the world the default length of copyright for many works is generally the life of the author plus either 50 or 70 years. Copyright in general always expires at the end of the year concerned, rather than on the exact date of the death of the author. (The right to reclaim a copyright--or "terminate the transfer" of a copyright--commences and ends on the anniversaries of exact dates in the United States.)

So, even when those companies might not realize they've made MSX software in the past -imagine that after 20 years a whole new crew is at work there-, or the company might've long gone already, the software is still copyrighted.

بواسطة nikodr

Paladin (748)

صورة nikodr

31-07-2007, 13:56

The policy rules here are very straight.

From 2.1 of the policies "Any user submitting content to the MRC to which they do not have the copyrights must have approval of the copyright owner at the time the content is submitted"

2.3 "It is not allowed to submit any content that is of illegal nature, or endorses illegal activity"

4.2 "4.2 Members using the forums on the MRC website must agree to abide by the following rules:
The posting of copyrighted content is not allowed,The posting of links to the above is not allowed,
The soliciting of the above is not allowed"

4.3 "Submissions to the forums will not be considered by the MRC as copyrighted material. When posting on our forums you declare to agree with this. You may quote from copyrighted material as far as the 'fair use' clause of the copyrighted material allows this, but only when clearly indicating the copyright information of the original author/copyright owner."

بواسطة MicroTech

Champion (388)

صورة MicroTech

31-07-2007, 16:20

Suppose this case:

- Mr. Smith disassembles an old CP/M (but still copyrighted) executable to give a look at how some tasks are performed and to understand the file format this executable produces

- Mr. Smith studies how the program works, and re-engineers the algorithms and writes a new application which can perform the same tasks as the old CP/M program and produce compatible files, but in a very different and optimized way

- Mr Smith decides to release the new executable as freeware (Mr. Smith has no commercial profit)

Question 1: is Mr Smith legally actionable?
Question 2: can Mr Smith release the sources of his executable in the public domain?

(@ Mr Smith: whatever similitude with real persons is a pure coincidence Tongue)

بواسطة dioniso

Champion (479)

صورة dioniso

31-07-2007, 17:11

You can create the same game with your one code -totally different from the original game, but the original creator/coder still has the intellectual property; that's to say, the idea. This one runs out shorter that the copyrights, maybe; something like 20 years, or so.

I think a good example of copyright and intellectual property end could be the NE$ clones. Have a look at "Post-patent Famiclones".

بواسطة Sama

Ambassador (2068)

صورة Sama

31-07-2007, 18:22

Intellectual property cases are usually hard cases, in which little is predictable beforehand. As for copyright, the criterion should be something like "has a NEW product come into existence?", "who is responsible for the MAIN CHARACTERISTICS of this product?". Usually, the answer to the latter question is also the copyright proprietor.

These are only simple rules, though, and often the debate gets very complicated. As for your Mr. Smith case, MicroTech, there are a few things that I can say with certainty:

- Whether or not a product is distributed for free, is of no relevance. Copyright protects a product from distribution, multiplication, etc. against the will of the copyright owner. Whether or not money is charged for it, is irrelevant (it may only be relevant for the height of the damages claim).

Question 1: He surely is legally actionable. It's open to debate, however, whether or not he will win the case. I can't speculate on that either.
Question 2: If he can in the public domain, he can charge money for it as well. It all depends on whether or not our mysterious mr. Smith wins the case of question 1.

As for the initial question, wolf_ is right: copyright stays intact for 50-70 years, depending on domestic and international law. You can safely say that -every- MSX software production is still copyrighted, unless made freeware by the copyright proprietors. Whether or not it is legal to put games online, depends on whether or not you are able to acquire a license to do so. Copyright also has economic value, so whenever a company goes bankrupt or anything, the copyright is part of the assets that will be sold. Therefore, copyright will remain intact also in case of a bankrupcy, merger, etc.

Dioniso: the idea is part of the copyright; it surely doesn't run out earlier than the copyright itself. That does go for patents and such, but those aren't applied to (normal consumer) software as far as I know.

I know, not really informing, this post, but to shed only a little light on it (and I'm too lazy to dive into the books for this WinkTongue).

بواسطة LeandroCorreia

Paladin (957)

صورة LeandroCorreia

31-07-2007, 19:19

Just a case: A japanese company from the 80s went bankrupt. No company bought their intellectual properties. The softwares made by them are now free?

بواسطة Sama

Ambassador (2068)

صورة Sama

31-07-2007, 19:54

Nope. Either the property falls back to the (individual) creator(s), or it was 'given away' with other property. Nothing of any value ever remains after a bankruptcy, so this is a very hypothetical case.

بواسطة wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

صورة wolf_

31-07-2007, 20:00

I think the programmers/artists own the copyrights, maybe the former manager, dunno. It may depend on how their contracts were setup. There's a difference between copyright and exploitation right. Copyright says who owns something, while exploitation right says who may distribute something. There's something similar with music/royalty organizations, I put my exploitation rights there, meaning that they may exploit it. In simple words this means that TV stations etc. may use it, they pay that organization, and that organization pays me. Same with Bazix I think, not sure tho.. Tongue Microcabin still owns the copyright on Xak1, but Bazix has the exploitation rights of the Woomb version. Former Funet doesn't, and thus may not spread it.
Now, back to the old 80's stuff. It could be that the exploitation rights were once in hands of the company that went bankrupt, but what does that tell about the copyrights? So it all depends on the contracts. If the coders/artists kept the copyrights, but gave exploitation rights to their boss, then I guess there's still (c).

In any case, we can talk long or short about it, best would be to assume active copyright *always*. If there's a rare occasion in which the copyright is free as a bird, then it's just that: rare. The bottom line is still that hosting such is on your own risk, and pointing to it on MRC will be {rewarded} Tongue Hannibal

بواسطة wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

صورة wolf_

31-07-2007, 20:01

hmpf.. so, "that" .. Tongue

بواسطة nikodr

Paladin (748)

صورة nikodr

31-07-2007, 20:48

However the original question that crazyboss asked was wether some -(if i understand correctly)- msx rom dumps could be put online.There are many sites that have for example complete konami msx roms,and you can certainly get them for free.Is this legal?Of course not.But noone seems to care though at least for some of the games that were made 20+ years ago.

I am not trying to protect pirates and piracy.This is just a thought.For our site http://www.msx.org the best thing is not to offer dumps of original games and i think if a roms is offered it is when programers declare their game/rom/program/whatever can be distributed for free.

I remember a case with David Braben the creator of original Elite,that he had some law issues with some people that distributed dumps of elite.Many others followed his example and went to courts.Lawyers make large amounts of money out of such situations :)

Again think this:Companies have to fight piracy and persuade people to buy legitimate products and not copied ones.They have to fight to support their modern systems.

After all companies like eg konami no longer produce msx2 megaroms or games (although there are collection of older msx games for other platforms).

I do not think that they have neither the money time or resources to hunt down people or sites that distribute old eg msx/amstrad/spectrum/insert your favorite retro machine-computer.They probably do it only for people offering roms or games that have just been made in the shelves of the shops and the next morning you can find the torrent to download it.

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