Freescape

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بواسطة mohai

Paladin (1007)

صورة mohai

25-01-2023, 19:17

Hi all !

Do you think a Freescape engine could be possible for MSX or MSX2?
I mean an engine able to show an acceptable performance, such a 1 frame per second.
After checking the existings versions, such as ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC or Commodore 64, I think an MSX version able to show similar performance is enough for me.
In those versions, frames per second an playing area are poor, but I think that, even that way, they can be catchy.

An MSX1 version could be done "the old way", from the Spectrum version.
At first glance, I cannot think how to improve it, as the main core is pure Z80 and the VRAM dump will only make the result slower.

Maybe an MSX2 version, that can use VDP commands such as lines, dots, etc. and VRAM as a buffer, could show better performance.
I never programmed the V9938, so I do not know how could it perform in such engine.

What do you think ?

I know of a few games that do an approach to Freescape, such as Chuck Yeager, Test Drive II.
There are other games that show the typical wire-structures (Elite, Return of Jelda), but I think they are not Freescape 100%

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بواسطة santiontanon

Paragon (1807)

صورة santiontanon

25-01-2023, 19:40

Interesting topic! There was a thread where a lot of 3d rendering techniques were discussed a while ago: https://msx.org/forum/msx-talk/development/3d-rasterisation?...

بواسطة Uninteresting

Champion (352)

صورة Uninteresting

25-01-2023, 20:19

Is Freescape for larger areas, or would something like Castle Master be implementable in it? Not really an action game but something slower framerates are tolerable with, plus limiting to smaller closed areas/rooms should probably help with the framerate.

بواسطة mohai

Paladin (1007)

صورة mohai

27-01-2023, 12:02

santiontanon wrote:

Interesting topic! There was a thread where a lot of 3d rendering techniques were discussed a while ago: https://msx.org/forum/msx-talk/development/3d-rasterisation?page=0

Thank you for the info.
Seeing these demos, I am pretty confident that a decent Freescape engine can be done in MSX2.
Sure there are tricks, such as pre-calculated tables, double-buffer, etc. to make things faster. Trigonometric is hard for a humble Z80.

بواسطة mohai

Paladin (1007)

صورة mohai

27-01-2023, 13:38

Uninteresting wrote:

Is Freescape for larger areas, or would something like Castle Master be implementable in it? Not really an action game but something slower framerates are tolerable with, plus limiting to smaller closed areas/rooms should probably help with the framerate.

Well, I tried several games and I found there are some tricks, here and there to simulate large areas.
Some of the games do start in the desert or an island but, the size of the first "room" is only an illusion. There is the sky, the ground/floor and some objects such as a pyramid, a tree, a tower ... but there are no walls surrounding. That makes an impression of large areas, but there are no far objects.

بواسطة Timmy

Master (200)

صورة Timmy

28-01-2023, 17:38

Uninteresting wrote:

Is Freescape for larger areas, or would something like Castle Master be implementable in it? Not really an action game but something slower framerates are tolerable with, plus limiting to smaller closed areas/rooms should probably help with the framerate.

Castle Master was written using the Freescape engine, like the other Freescape based games like Driller, Dark Side, amongst others.

That being said, if it was already slow on the Spectrum, then you should expect it being likely possible on a MSX2 or higher machine to have a decent (but still very slow, like 1 frame per 3 seconds) framerate. These are NOT action games, even if they sometimes contain action elements.

بواسطة Uninteresting

Champion (352)

صورة Uninteresting

29-01-2023, 19:00

Well don't I feel stupid, I thought Freescape was a modern engine and not used in commercial products at the time.

بواسطة Timmy

Master (200)

صورة Timmy

30-01-2023, 00:45

Uninteresting wrote:

Well don't I feel stupid, I thought Freescape was a modern engine and not used in commercial products at the time.

Please don't feel bad. While Freescape was a huge success on other 8 bit computers, it just wasn't very well-known on the MSX.

As a mostly Spectrum person myself, I still feel badly informed myself with MSX related games like Maze of Galious, Penguin Adventure or Metal Gear, for example.

Here's a link with more information on Freescape: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freescape

بواسطة santiontanon

Paragon (1807)

صورة santiontanon

30-01-2023, 01:12

I have been considering doing something in 3D with polygons, etc. recently (and have already started writing some routines to play around with things). So, when I saw this post I became interested, and I have started disassembling one of the Freescape games ("Castle Master 2"), to take a peek at the drawing routines. Understanding and annotating disassembled code is a tedious and long process, so, it will take me a few weeks. But if I find anything interesting, I'll report back. I also wonder how easy would it be to port to MSX once I understand all the code in the disassembly.

Today I already managed a first disassembly where I located all the code/data blocks, and have a .asm file that if I compile I can run the game. So, that's a starting point Smile

بواسطة ~mk~

Champion (329)

صورة ~mk~

30-01-2023, 05:10

Another game (in this case, for MSX) that might be interesting to study is Maltese Joe's Pool Challenge

بواسطة santiontanon

Paragon (1807)

صورة santiontanon

30-01-2023, 15:37

Oh, nice! I got my hands full disassembling one already, but if anyone has or is willing to disassembler this one, it'd be cool to take a look!

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