Read this and Help the MSX Music Arrangers !

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Por Low_Profile

Champion (425)

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17-09-2003, 14:02

I agree... accuracy is very important... the less accurate it sounds, the more amaturistic the arrangement will appear. This is most significant in Lead/Solo parts of a song, because EVERYONE will notice it if there's something 'wrong' in that. Less obvious is a bassline, though SCC-basslines tend to be more prominent than 'conventional' music Smile

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

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17-09-2003, 14:23

Sure Snout, now trust on your ears and your feeling with the song and publish some rearrangements. We're all curious to see how many arrangements you'll make before being pissed off a the note retrieval process which has nothing to do with the arrangement itself. It's just a basis that you analyse and use for the final remake.
Actually snout recently arranged over 10 songs (on MSX, not synthcrap), which you will hear about relatively soon. And if I may say so, they sound incredible!

Por Low_Profile

Champion (425)

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17-09-2003, 14:31

Hmmm I resent the word 'synthcrap'

Por ro

Scribe (4531)

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17-09-2003, 14:38

I agree... accuracy is very important... the less accurate it sounds, the more amaturistic the arrangement will appear.

Well, now kick the bucket and tell me that this ISN'T exactly what seperates the boys from the man!?

Por shaiwa

Champion (384)

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17-09-2003, 14:41

Agree with that Low_Profile, as far as i know Yamaha called the opl1&opll also
FM music synth chips.... and if i'm not mistaking on the box of nemesis2 was something like
8 channel synthesizer printed... (can't check that right now).

[edit]
checked :
new 8 voice polyphonic LSI Custom Sound Chip Mounted

(ps: yes i know its 3*psg & 5*scc)
[/edit]

Por Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1771)

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17-09-2003, 15:07

Hmm... the '8 channel soundchip' refers to the combo of PSG (3 channels) and SCC (5 channels) afaik.

But, more to the original subject, I think it's very satisfying to make a cover of a song with your ears only in stead of the (imho quite lame) approach of using an existing MIDI (mostly not accurate enough) song or a KSS file with muted channels. When arranging all notes yourself, you'll get more into the song, and it will be easier to do variations on it, etc. Sure, it's a lot more work, but in the end the result is so much more satisfying! Besides, J-War seems to talk about this being important if you want to cover a lot of songs (eg. a complete soundtrack). That is quite nice, of course, but I'd rather handpick only the songs I like in stead of being 'forced' to arrange all songs in a game, including the ones I don't like. Also, I'm afraid that arranging stuff like that will mostly result in just the same song but with instruments from big synths in stead of the original instruments....

Por Low_Profile

Champion (425)

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17-09-2003, 15:39

MSX-Audio, MSX-Music and heck, even PSG are synthesizers. That's not the point, I think he means that arranging a song with fancy synthesizers requires no skill to make it sound good. Allthough I agree that composing/arranging with 'less' channels/resources requires more skill to make it sound good. Forcing you to be more creative with a limited amount of channels.

But honestly, you've got a MUCH smaller audience if you're still arranging on a real MSX (unless you record it to wav/mp3 anywayz, in which the point on using a real MSX is lost) Smile

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9903)

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17-09-2003, 17:17

Finding out the notes by ear, is not impossible for many tunes, however, imagine the first few seconds of that 3rd sd snatcher intro (with the credits and gillian and that snatcher running around). Can you imagine doing all that, flawless, by just listening to it ?

If instead, you do 'something' that approaches it, ppl will say that the original is better, or at least that it doesn't sound right.

You don't need notes for the lead, for sure, but few other parts, such as the baseline, are a bit more tricky to do.

Besides, in the end, it will all work out, either way. But do you prefer spending 2 months on finding out all notes by listening to them, or 2 weeks 'copying' them? This issue is purely based on the trouble to 'extract' the correct notes. It has zippo to do with the actually arranging itself, it's up to the arranger to screw up it, or to make it a succes.

It's all purely for practical reasons. The movie director (and the producer) I usually work with make some weird choices too. For a commercial for the Rotterdam Filmfestival, some years ago, they animated (CGI) the neon advertisement boxes (uithangbordern ?? Smile ) in a street that they filmed. You could also say: film the real neon ad boxes that were there. But they didn't, for practical reasons. What I'm saying is: ofcourse they could.. but they didn't. But it didn't lower the quality of the end-product, and they didn't have the feeling that they were lame. And ofcourse, for that commercial, some $ was involved, so if doing CGI is cheaper than filming the real ad boxes, then I guess it must be so. That these arranged songs are amateur-projects, doesn't mean that you shouln'd approach it the professional way, afaik 'amateur' only means that you don't get paid, while it's still possible to create something stunning.

The only thing that I agree on is that replacing instruments in a midifile is not the way to go, but you could use it as a reference.. as it is the case with muted/solo'ed KSS or imagine tracks.

Por J-War

Champion (413)

Imagen del J-War

17-09-2003, 18:41

" The only thing that I agree on is that replacing instruments in a midifile is not the way to go, but you could use it as a reference.. as it is the case with muted/solo'ed KSS or imagine tracks. "

This is exactly what i meant when i posted this thread. It's fantastic at least one person understand what i say !

Btw for my part, i arranged enough songs in my life to now fasten things a bit, with a solid reference as the muting channel trick or a midi log things get easier and accurate. It's UP TO YOU then to use the midi or the muted channel trick !!!

I discovered KSS just after finishing the 44 metal gear 2 songs... It allowed me to ensure all was fine, if only i had midifiles it would have been even easier... No shame here.

Now that's your choice to get offended by the " muting channel trick " and the " midifile " log but i don't need to demonstrate anymore i am able to arrange songs without those tricks ! Btw all arranger used those tricks or similar so hey stop it now...
Listening to a 2 sec piece of wav in a wav editor to find which is the good note on a hard part isn't realy neat !

After all the songs i've done, the note retrieval process is boring me A LOT now ! And soon i'll probably stop or slowdown because of that LIKE MOST OF PPL that stoped arranging cause of lack of free time and because we've all a real life.

For educative purpose also, a midifile is very good, you can study and understand how the guy composed the song... After that, it's up to you to snatch the midi or to make a real arrange...
If you guys aren't able to use it the wise way, it's not my problem after all... There's nothing i can do if your favorite hobby when you have time is to spend hours retrieving note.

I never used an existing midifile to make an arrange in my whole life and moreover i still think many MSX musics deserve an arrangement, and whatever will help me doing it is welcome si I REPEAT :

I need a tool to make things less boring and easier, because easier is not worse when you used the hard way enough !

Most important : maybe some of you lazzy fuck would even start to arrange song ANEW with such a tool... If it's available, just don't tell you use it, your ego will be safe Wink

Por J-War

Champion (413)

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17-09-2003, 19:04

How about a program that can 'rip' cq record raw msx music... i think that make life easier....
Working on a proggie like that but i'm a starting amateur programmer so that will take a while.
But offcourse,... if someone has better options/methodes i'll be very happy.

Could you explain me what it means ? Smile
It's a bit too technical for me hehe

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