Read this and Help the MSX Music Arrangers !

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Por snout

Ascended (15184)

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17-09-2003, 19:05

Sure Snout, now trust on your ears and your feeling with the song and publish some rearrangements. We're all curious to see how many arrangements you'll make before being pissed off a the note retrieval process which has nothing to do with the arrangement itself. It's just a basis that you analyse and use for the final remake.

That's odd as I've just re-arranged more than 10 songs from a gameboy advanced game on MSX and I only got very positive reactions so far. (check GuyveR's reaction on the previous page). I did most of the songs in about 2 days. (Not 2 days a song, 2 days for all songs). Did that just by trusting my ears.

To me, nothing is more boring than a completely accurate cover/re-arrangement. You're a composer, aren't you?

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9903)

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17-09-2003, 19:14

wrong, he's an arranger Smile

a composer composes music

an arranger arranges music

a composer can compose 1 single line on a flute, while he writes down a supportive chord and a bass

an arranger can take that line and chord and make a score for it, to be played by 120 players.

In the golden hollywood years, filmcomposers sat behind a piano, to play lines while an orchestrator/arranger sat next to him to bake an orchestral score out of it. So there's definitly a difference between composing and arranging.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

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17-09-2003, 19:28

wolf, you're saying that as if an arranger can't compose music (or vice versa). The whole point of making an arrangement of an existing song is giving your own twist to it. Not just some different instruments. If I wanted a near-perfect replica I might as well listen to the original.

Por ~mk~

Champion (303)

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17-09-2003, 19:38

Hey J-War you might be interested in a program that was recently mentioned in another thread (don't remember which):

"Yawara": General Game Music and Sound Effect Player
www.angelfire.com/art2/unicorndreams/msx/Yawara.html

It's for MSX so to record the music you'll have to connect a real MSX to your soundcard or use an emulator that can output to wav.

If you don't mind I would like to make a suggestion for your next arrangement(s): Knightmare!!! (level 1, level 2 or boss music, they're all great)

Thanks for keeping the MSX alive! :)

Por Low_Profile

Champion (425)

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17-09-2003, 20:12


That these arranged songs are amateur-projects, doesn't mean that you shouln'd approach it the professional way, afaik 'amateur' only means that you don't get paid, while it's still possible to create something stunning.

I know Amaturistic means not getting payed for, but it is ALSO an expression used to mark something that lacks perfectionalism.
When I say "that sounds amaturistic" I don't mean "I can hear the composer/arranger didn't get payed for this" Smile
Hell, we all started out as amatures anyway!


The only thing that I agree on is that replacing instruments in a midifile is not the way to go, but you could use it as a reference.. as it is the case with muted/solo'ed KSS or imagine tracks.

Yes ofcourse, the arranger should at least put _some_ effort in his work Smile

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9903)

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17-09-2003, 20:43

@snout

Ofcourse many normal arrangers, and msx-arrangers too, can compose music. However, since his music is so 1:1 with the originals (in terms of notes) I'd call him an arranger. From this perspective, if his notes are 1:1, then it's ok.

You could also arrange and modify a tune, or make something new 'inspired' form the originals (like I did with those 2 MoG remakes), in that case, the role of the arranger moves to that of a composer. However, that re-composing is not the issue here, or well, at least not in the case of j-war.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9903)

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17-09-2003, 20:45

@lowprofile

yeah sure, that's the 'expression' .. however, from my p.o.v. an amateur can have a professional attitude, that's what I meant. If that means that the amateur does some things that professionals do, so be it.

Por Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1771)

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17-09-2003, 23:03

The whole point of making an arrangement of an existing song is giving your own twist to it. Not just some different instruments. If I wanted a near-perfect replica I might as well listen to the original.

Exactly my point (although I didn't describe it very well)! I'd prefer to make a real arranged version of an MSX song above a very close cover to the original, with the only modification being the kind of instruments used. If I'd want that, I would like something like J-War is suggesting, but for real arrangements you don't really need it (imho). Although it might come in handy for the tricky parts of a lead Big smile

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9903)

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17-09-2003, 23:29

At least divide between 1:1 arrangements and 'inspired by' or 'enhanced' arrangements

J-War does the first option, while you all refer to the 2nd one.

Por J-War

Champion (413)

Imagen del J-War

18-09-2003, 02:02

To me, nothing is more boring than a completely accurate cover/re-arrangement. You're a composer, aren't you?
I am, and there's a compositions section on my site.
I can't understand why an accurate cover wouldn't deserve as much respect as an " inspired by " song !
The KV2 remake from Wolf is what i call an excellent completely-accurate arrangement.
It's often way more hard to have a song sounding close to the original SCC one than to make an inspired song and choose the sound patches you want, if you don't trust me try it yourself, and you'll understand what i mean. And i know wolf should agree with me on that !
Btw, I made "inspired by songs", listen to them.
I'd prefer to make a real arranged version of an MSX song above a very close cover to the original, with the only modification being the kind of instruments used. If I'd want that, I would like something like J-War is suggesting, but for real arrangements you don't really need it (imho).

Basicaly that means i don't make real arrangement but instead i make covers with only different instrument assignations ?

If I'd want that, I would like something like J-War is suggesting, but for real arrangements you don't really need it (imho).

Basicaly it seems (at least) that means jorito does real arrangement, unlike me

When i listen to 99% of the arrangements already made, i don't hear many " inspired by " songs although there are way more years you're arranging msx musics than me.
The only realy improved and " inspired by " arrange i heard was the Vampire Killer (Reprise) from Ruud van de Moosdijk. I don't know if i should count the DIA51 from junu & jorito as there was more than one person involved into it and because the most improvements came from junu's guitar playing while there aren't much synth in it.
When i listened to Jorito's REAL arrangements, i heard something very close to the original also, with different instrument assignations.
Of course i should mention he added there and there some synths chords following the bassline, some Dance/Pseudo TripHop rythm, and often the same lead sound (F1 Spririt / Mog).
I should also mention that all the REAL arranges from Jorito use the same stylistic patterns and sound textures nothing less nothing more.

At least divide between 1:1 arrangements and 'inspired by' or 'enhanced' arrangements

J-War does the first option, while you all refer to the 2nd one.

I don't agree, as far as i know my Golvellius Arrange for example is a real enhancement over the original version. Although the theme is the same there are tons of things that doesn't exists in the original. (Drums, Bassline, Solo, Chords, Breaks, Harmonizations etc...)

Furthermore, the other arranges i made features a lots of discretes enhancement over the original... Exactly like in the Wolf's arrangements no less no more... Although we have realy different equipements and methods, the arranges we both released were done with the same goal in mind.

Some arranges i made which are close to the original features although some discrete improvements over the original, like chords, breaks, rythms and other stuffs... (Hey, that's like the Jorito's real arrangements finaly)

Maybe i should let you know i arranged songs to different music kind ? You didn't noticed ? Orchestral for Space Manbow, Fusion for SD, Rock for Golvellius, Jazz for Another Bad accident, World for KV2...

Also i should say that EVEN if an arrangement is close to the original, the vibratos effect, volumes effects, accentuations, creshendos, portamentos and all expressions effects have to be created from the start to the end and it's a lots of work. And well, you should know getting the whole thing sounding fine is a damn hard task.

When someone release an arrangement, the purpose is not to hunt what's wrong in it just to find a reason why you would have done better !
The purpose isn't either to jump on the guy which released it to say " hey this part sux, this one too, why you didn't do that instead ? " just because another guy after you will just say the opposite... All is a matter of taste and your taste doesn't count over the multitude.
I still can't undestand why some ppl jumped on wolf saying the vibrato wasn't fine or there wasn't enough this or that... blah blah blah blah... Can't you just enjoy what he did ? The dragon slayer 6 arrange he released is realy TOP OF THE NOTCH, if you want him to release more then just tell him how good the work he achieved is and give him SUGGESTIONS instead of overcriticizing everything.
None of you could have done better ! Learn to like and to listen how ppl made their song and arrangement, even if it doesn't fit your taste, even if you're sure you would have done better, the arranger still did something that fit his taste not YOURS ! Just think about the time and efforts he had to put into his work the rest is horse manure. (Guyver800 style Tongue )

At least, I (We) don't do that for fame or money, i hope you understood it, it's taken directly on our free time... And NO i don't have more free time than you, but for my part i carry on doing it.
IF anyone dislike how i/we arrange please go behind your synth, start to work (Hey, no matter you're tired) and do REALY BETTER and MORE SONGS, everyone even me will be pleased with better & more arranges !
I don't have much free time but i enjoyed spending it in arranging msx songs lately and well i made a total of 16 songs ( the half in 4 hours or so, remember i posted a new each day ) which is not bad and the most important : that made people happy while contributing to the MSX music (considering the great feedbacks i had and not considering how good i am).

I realy don't think comparing yourself all the time with other people is a good attitude, if a comparison is needed then no matter how fucking lame it is just let's make a contest then... Like every one has the same PSG song which is not in KSS or in MSX PLUG format to arrange the way he want in a week. The song title is known a sunday @ 12:00 am and has to be released the next sunday @ 12:00 am then ppl will vote and choose who's the best. Quite Sad...

And don't tell me criticals are mandatory to improve yourself over years, only respectful suggestions are... the rest isn't ! This is all the difference...

Of course, please understand all of these line are IMHO.

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