What's up with these 'DSK-managers'

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Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 09:12

Right, finally I'm playing around a bit with MSX emulators. I still don't really like them, but sometimes, they can be useful, I admit.

I have HUGE problems with creating DSK-images, though. I have now both Diskmanager and DskExplorer. It seems though when I'm creating a DSK-image and I have added some files, this diskimage is only readable when I boot an emul in turboR-mode. Does this have anything to do with the emulated diskcontroller?

Furthermore, when I open a DSK-image and add files to that image using Diskmanager, these files won't be shown in DskExplorer and viceversa.

I'm a complete DSK-image newbie, what is going on here? It took me AGES to finally got a working DSK-image with some snowfall demos. And still, I have to boot my emu in turboR-mode and put the CPU back to original speed (3.57 Mhz)....

On my real MSX, it just works instantly!

Grmblz.....stupid emulation....Grmblz.......Tongue Tongue

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Por shaiwa

Champion (385)

Imagen del shaiwa

19-12-2003, 09:30

I'm using RuMSX for creating a DSK image cause this emu can handle the real disk drive... So copy the files to a 720k disk in drive a: and a create a disk image in (virtual)drive b: ... copy the files from drive a: to b:... there you got a dsk image with the files you want.

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 09:38

Yeah well, fortunately, I DO have the brains to make DSK-images with the files in it and stuff Tongue That's not the problem. The thing is, the created DSK-images don't seem to be compatible with some emulators or something.....

I have made this DSK-image with Sjoerd's snowfall demo on it using Diskmanager. All the files are in it. Nice! Let's boot the DSK-image in e.g. NLMSX.....GREAT! After a DIR I only see msxdos(2).sys and command(2).com......Hmmmm, I got these systemfiles from another location than Sjoerd his demo of course, Sjoerd didn't include them in his package...

Right, let's boot the DSK-image in BlueMSX then....Great, it boots DOS again. And NOW, after a DIR, I see ALL the files! Exciting!

Let's boot 'snow.com' in BlueMSX then! Nothing happens....Let's read the 'readme.txt' in the diskimage.....Nothing happens.....The files seem to be empty or something?

I really have the feeling I'm using a strange kind of 'disk.rom' or something....No, that can't be, because BlueMSX has all the ROMs integrated. Then my created DSK-image has problems. Why? Is it because of Diskmanager? Creating the DSK-image with DiskExplorer gives the same results, so that can't be it.

Ah well, my hate for emulators has now risen again to the same level as it was a couple of days ago, so I'll just put Sjoerd his demo on a Compactflash card and boot it at home on one of my real MSX computers.....

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 10:04

Tsssss, I'm still continuing my quest. Right now, I've made a new DSK-image in DskExplorer 0.84. First I've created a new Diskimage. I didn't see the created Diskimage instantly, but after a refresh I suddenly see this 'New720.dsk'. Here's my new Diskimage! Right then, let's read the manual for once....Reading, reading, reading.....Adding files! 'Select a Diskimage and press right mouse button'.....Right! What happens when I do that? I see just the same options as on the picture in the manual, but...The 'Add File' option is grey and therefor not available.

Hmmmm, let's read the manual again....Aha! I can also add files in the right window by pressing the 'right mouse button'. Let's do that! YES! Now I DO have the option to 'Add A File'. Let's click it......This is COOL! I now can add files! But unfortunately, I can only add '*.dsk'-files to the Diskimage now!

Sooooo.......Here I have DskExplorer and being able only to add *.dsk-files to diskimages.....

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 10:22

Ok, now I've restarted DiskExplorer and in the left menu, I still can't add files using the right mouse button. The 'Add File'-option is still grey. But in the right window I now suddenly CAN add files with other then *.dsk-extension...

There must be something wrong with the files from Sjoerd his Snowdemo. When I add *.txt-files or systemfiles to the DSK-images, they CAN be read in e.g. BlueMSX. So that works now. When I try to read the files from Sjoerd his snowdemo on my PC, I can ALSO read them perfectly! But as soon as I've copied the files from Sjoerd his demo onto a DSK-image using DskExplorer, they can NOT be read when booting this DSK-image on e.g. BlueMSX.....

I'm pretty sure just booting the files from Sjoerd his demo on a real MSX will work just fine...

Anyhow, all these experiences, as I have written above, really don't make me like emulators. There are just too many odd things happening all the time. Strange DSK-images, not working DSK-images because of copyprotections which can't be emulated, suddenly empty files on DSK-images, DSK-images created with Diskmanager which seem only can be executed while using RuMSX or NLMSX in turboR-mode....And I could go on and on and on....

Of course, these are my own experiences and I'm probably just doing things very very wrong, but that doesn't matter. I dislike it big time...

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 10:28

No, it's not Sjoerd his demo. I've just added the files from that Lumi-snowfall-demo. On PC, I can read the files perfectly. I've added them with DskExplorer, but when booting the DSK-image in BlueMSX, also these files are NOT readable.....The only files that work are msxdos.sys and command.com and other TXT-files I simply have added to the DSK-image....

I give up.......Sad

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 10:33

Final update, I just booted that DSK-image in NLMSX, configured as turboR and now the DSK-image can be read completely. Watching Nyyrikki's 2nd entry at the moment...

So, now I have this DSK-image working well on NLMSX, configured as turboR, but partly working on BlueMSX (namely only msxdos.sys, command.com and other randomly selected files from my PC HD)...

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 10:35

Ah well, getting these 2 demos working only costed me like 1.5 hours or so. On my MSX, it would have been 30 seconds.

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 10:46

Ok, one last interesting fact. I just added 'msxdos2.sys' and 'command2.com' to that diskimage. Booting NLMSX in turboR mode makes now boot msxdos2. After a 'DIR', only the systemfiles are visible (command.com, command2.com, msxdos.sys and msxdos2.sys). When booting NLMSX in turboR mode, DOS1 (key '1' pressed) makes all the files visible but NOT bootable. Booting the DSK-image without msxdos2.sys and command2.com on NLMSX in turboR DOS2 mode, makes a jump to BASIC and I can boot the Lumi-demo from BASIC now.

I think this is all simply unbelievable and highly unfriendly :/

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

19-12-2003, 11:02

Has it anything to do with the fact that those diskmanagers create either DOS1 disks or DOS2 disks?

Por sjoerd

Hero (602)

Imagen del sjoerd

19-12-2003, 11:43

I think the problem is in the bootsector, but I have never used one of these diskmanagers. You could make a image from a real disk and make a copy of it and add your files to that copy. At least the bootsector should be all right then.

I use dsx from no$msx to create diskimages, I have no problems using them with rumsx, openmsx and no$msx. The main reason to choose dsx is that it runs from the command line so I can put it in a batchfile together with sjasm and openmsx or another emulator.

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