BlueMSX is very fast growing MSX emulator.

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Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

Imagen del wolf_

17-05-2004, 13:49

would a normal msx2 with a gfx9000 be sufficient to emulate at least the visuals of a c64 then ? Sound would be a bit more difficult I guess..

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

Imagen del anonymous

17-05-2004, 16:19

CPU emulation is not very time consuming, and I think that it could be easily done in a x4 ratio. That's it, a Z80 running at 3,5 MHz should be emulated in a 3,5x4=14 MHz computer.
Actually on PC there generally is a x30 ratio for emulating a system.
Some systems, like MSX, are more complex than others.

A Z80 CPU emulation with mapped memory system like MSX and synchronisation between system devices with a 4:1 ratio on any x86 CPU is impossible.

I agree with you: 600 MHz to emulate a 3,5 MHz computer is too much. If you really want to see FAST MSX emulation I would recomend you the following emulators:
None of the programs you mention properly emulate MSX, they make a good effort, but that's all.

You need a 100+ MHz Pentium to emulate a 2 MHz Atari 2600, which is a very simple system.

Maybe you should try writing a CORRECT and FAST MSX emulator, and then see if your statements hold water.

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

Imagen del anonymous

17-05-2004, 16:35

would a normal msx2 with a gfx9000 be sufficient to emulate at least the visuals of a c64 then ? Sound would be a bit more difficult I guess..
To emulate the whole system (without sound, or with PSG approximation) you will need some more speed.

Purely talking CPU here, C64 has a 6510 CPU at 1 MHz. This CPU is hard to emulate for a Z80 because the architecture is very different.
Z80 is a register based architecture, it has many registers and can execute operations on them efficiently. Accessing memory is not Z80's strong point.
6502 is a memory based architecture, it only has 3 registers and most of it's instruction can access memory as if it were a register. For this purpose the 6502 has a special 256 byte area called ZeroPage, which it can address by specifying just one byte, and therefor is very quick.

The complicated and diverse memory addressing modes the 6502 offers further complicate the emulation.

Having said that, I did write a 6502 emulator for Z80 and I can tell you it's gonna be slow, although I haven't tested it yet...

Por pitpan

Prophet (3152)

Imagen del pitpan

17-05-2004, 19:56


A Z80 CPU emulation with mapped memory system like MSX and synchronisation between system devices with a 4:1 ratio on any x86 CPU is impossible.

I am sorry if my statement was not clear: to emulate JUST the CPU, without envolving anything else.

None of the programs you mention properly emulate MSX, they make a good effort, but that's all.

I should disagree with that: BrMSX is one of the most accurate MSX1 emulation around. I know it does not include all V9938 commands and has other issues on MSX2/MSX2+ emulation, but I am talking about MSX1 emulation. BrMSX hasn't been matched yet.


You need a 100+ MHz Pentium to emulate a 2 MHz Atari 2600, which is a very simple system.

Again, it is not the CPU emulation the problem, but the weird video chip that allows the user to program directly the CRT. The emulation of this feature is rather buggy and difficult in a PC computer.


Maybe you should try writing a CORRECT and FAST MSX emulator, and then see if your statements hold water.

I would like to, but as you know, emulators do stimulate piracy Wink

Por tfh

Prophet (3178)

Imagen del tfh

17-05-2004, 20:09


Quote:
We have also problems with some demos (Fony demo disk 1 and 2). Probably a better drive suppport will resolve the problem.

LOL Smile Smile I almost can't wait to see the running on BlueMSX.
I must admit I was pleasantly surprised last week, when I booted BlueMSX. Especially the screen emulation is very good!

Por tfh

Prophet (3178)

Imagen del tfh

17-05-2004, 20:13


Quote:
I would like to, but as you know, emulators do stimulate piracy Wink

Thank God MSX never suffered from Piracy before emulators showed up, right? Wink

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6229)

Imagen del mars2000you

17-05-2004, 23:22


LOL Smile Smile I almost can't wait to see the running on BlueMSX.
I must admit I was pleasantly surprised last week, when I booted BlueMSX. Especially the screen emulation is very good!

Thanks for your appreciation of blueMSX !

A precision : you can run the Fony demo disk 1, but there are some bugs (in the Writing demo and in the Fire demo) ; the Fony demo disk 2 hangs at the beginning ...

Por snout

Ascended (15187)

Imagen del snout

17-05-2004, 23:39

Fony Demo Disk 1 always hangs and goes to BASIC after the fireworks demo, even on my real MSX!

Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

Imagen del anonymous

17-05-2004, 23:45


A Z80 CPU emulation with mapped memory system like MSX and synchronisation between system devices with a 4:1 ratio on any x86 CPU is impossible.

I am sorry if my statement was not clear: to emulate JUST the CPU, without envolving anything else.
But without mapped memory system and synchronisation your 4:1 CPU core (which even without those features is impossible IMO) will be absolutely worthless!

I should disagree with that: BrMSX is one of the most accurate MSX1 emulation around. I know it does not include all V9938 commands and has other issues on MSX2/MSX2+ emulation, but I am talking about MSX1 emulation. BrMSX hasn't been matched yet.
BrMSX only emulates a subset of the MSX standard.

If you run any 'slow' emulator without all the extra's that BrMSX also doesn't have, it will come much closer to its speed.

Ofcourse, BrMSX will still be faster because it's written in assembly in stead of C or C++, but the difference won't be big.

Again, it is not the CPU emulation the problem, but the weird video chip that allows the user to program directly the CRT. The emulation of this feature is rather buggy and difficult in a PC computer.
The same 'feature' is needed for accurate MSX emulation, so hmmmm...

I would like to, but as you know, emulators do stimulate piracy Wink
weak! Wink

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6229)

Imagen del mars2000you

17-05-2004, 23:56

Fony Demo Disk 1 always hangs and goes to BASIC after the fireworks demo, even on my real MSX!

Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue

Yes, it seems to be basic, but it's a fake Basic .... it's a Fony joke !

I won't give you the solution, it would spoil the fun, just try F1 or enter some words to try to leave this fake basic screen !

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