When a "port" or a "remake" of a games come to be ilegal or is legal? where is the law line?

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Por Grauw

Ascended (10699)

Imagen del Grauw

23-05-2004, 22:21

There is a lot of grey area, but a few things can certainly not be done.

Characters for example, they are usually trademarked (and even if they're not they still fall under copyright laws), so you can not re-use them. Only Nintendo may publishing a game featuring Pikachu. Even if you don't call him exactly that, the character design copyrights are still violated. Warner Brothers can not use the Goofy character by Disney without first signing an agreement (and probably a payment). Not either if they call him 'Barry'. This basically goes for all art, even if you change it a little by reducing the amount of colours, re-arranging the location of some elements, etc...

A game title is ofcourse also trademarked. Changing the title alone with some minor tweaks (for example: Sonyc) definately does not offer sufficient protection against lawsuits. Nor do major tweaks necessarily, for that matter. In any case, take the Lindows example: Microsoft's lawyers claimed the name resembled Windows too much (for an OS), and filed lawsuits against them in various countries. It was and is a debatable issue, some cases were won, some were lost, but nevertheless they felt forced to change their name to Linspire after all.

A game concept also can't be copied ('ported') without the original creator's consent. You can not publish a book about Luke Skywalker and Han Solo in the Star Wars universe without George Lucas giving you his blessing. However, especially in this area there is a lot of 'grey'. Because, when is something a port of an existing game concept, and when is it an original one. If you want to create a Real Time Strategy game you do not need to get a license from the pioneers of the genre. So, if you are creating a port of some kind, it is always best to give it an original twist, by changing the gameplay or adding many new elements and not letting it resemble the original too much. Make it an 'inspired' game instead of a 'port'.

About the music - I think it falls all under the grey area Wolf mentioned, meaning nobody really knows (apparantly). Although, when used in software, I think it will get you in trouble. Imagine Rainbow Six using an arrangement of the Metal Gear Solid tune. Fat chance.

Of course all this is just about what the law says. If you create a port of a game on a very low profile, in an area where there is no interest for by the original creator, you could very well get away with it. Take the Battle Tetris game for example. Aside from that maybe it introduces some original elements (I think that's hard, with the huge amount of existing Tetris games), it is clear that it is using a game concept and title which is copyrighted by the Tetris Corporation. However, because it is such a small game for a small audience, and they do not have any interests in the MSX world (not yet, at least ;p), they will not act on it. Same goes for say, Sonyc by Manuel Pazos.

Hope that answers your questions.

Now some responses to pitpan:
But now comes the detail: in the roman law, that is the origin of all civil law in continental Europe, you do not "hurt" the interest of another person if you do not produce him an economically valuable effect. In spanish it is "lucro cesante" (that's it, the money that he won't earn because of your action) and "daño emergente" (the direct economical loss).
This is nonsense. By publishing a free version of a product without license you deprive the original creator of income, because people will not buy the creator's product anymore, or at least less people will. They invested time and money in creating that product in the first place, and you recreating it for free does not justify anything. It is plain theft.

Anyways, you may think it is the 'origin of all civil law', but whether it is or not, doesn't make copying a game concept, game characters and other related issues more legal.

Anyway, as I stated in GURU LOGIC for MSX page ( http://www.robsy.net/guru.htm ), I would put it off-line if the entitled owner asks me to do so. I tried to contact them but I got no answer, so I continued with it.
About the AIKY site, you claim it doesn't exist/work, this is simply not true. Its address is http://www.aiky.biz/.

~Grauw

Por pitpan

Prophet (3155)

Imagen del pitpan

24-05-2004, 00:28

Trust me, Grauw: under the spanish civil law I cannot be sued, because I haven't produced any monetary damage to Compile/Aiky. If they want to sue me using criminal law, it is even more difficult.

Let's consider it from a different perspective: I am freely advertising their game. If you like the raw version, then you can get the GBA version.

Everything should be very different if I were selling the game (as others did). But no, man: I am giving it away for free!

Thank you for Aiky link. The one that's found in my page was the first one that appeared in the MRC news. I will update it as soon as possible.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

Imagen del wolf_

24-05-2004, 00:42

I wouldn't say that you as an 'amateur' don't get anything (which makes it legal). Not money, no, but ppl know you because of this game, that's what you get. If you're going to use this game for a portfolio, then again you gain something..

ahwell.. nitpicking Smile

Por DarQ

Paragon (1038)

Imagen del DarQ

24-05-2004, 00:53

i guess its just time to test all this in courts around the world. let there be some jurisdiction about this. that'll clear up things i guess

Por dhau

Paragon (1570)

Imagen del dhau

24-05-2004, 01:39

I guess remakes are ok as long as they have appropriate EULA (i.e. "you can only play this game if you own the original" clause).

An even better approach is to release a game patching kit, which uses original media as a source for some art. This way it is really up to user to make sure they use original or pirated copy of a game.

Por Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Imagen del Sonic_aka_T

24-05-2004, 02:31

Nah, it'd still be a copyright violation... Most software companies don't care too much though. The second option you gave is now also illegal, by the way... Even mod's are now outlawed by most new copyright acts / eula's... Friggin idiot governments...

Por Grauw

Ascended (10699)

Imagen del Grauw

24-05-2004, 17:11

Pitpan, I seriously doubt even Spanish law allows for that. It is as simple as this: We are developing an official port of the Guru Logic game for Aiky, a playable demo was published on MSX Magazine 2. We were already developing it when you started with your project, and we notified you about this in the early stages, so you could have easily aborted it or made major modifications, evolving it into a different game (as we suggested you do). But you didn't, and aside from that I see that as a lack of respect towards us, when you published that game, you basically created the same game as we do (even though ours will be much bigger and better of course). People will play and perhaps finish your game, and they won't feel like buying the same game again. Which lowers the number of copies Aiky will sell. I can not imagine such a thing to be legal in any country but under-developed third world countries or China or so. You just do not have the rights to use Aiky's intellectual properties, especially not in an area where Aiky themselves are making development efforts. That's the way I see it. And that's why I and the other GLC team members are pissed at you, especially after you actually *expanded* your game with more features.

And even if it would be legal in Spain, it is still very much illegal in amongst others the Netherlands and most other European countries. You shouldn't be distributing it over the internet, for everybody to download, harming our interests. Assuming this is indeed the Spanish law, you could give copies away at Spanish fairs or so, limiting distribution to Spain only. Though that honestly would hardly make me think any better of you. The damage has already been done.

~Grauw

Por pitpan

Prophet (3155)

Imagen del pitpan

24-05-2004, 17:20

As I stated in my page, I will retire it off-line as soon as somebody from Aiky tell me to do so. Until then...

Por dhau

Paragon (1570)

Imagen del dhau

24-05-2004, 18:03

Grauw: you code Guru Logic for Aiky? Cool! What is the platform? GBA?

BTW: I don't think you can bash Pitpan, as long as he is not violating any trademarks. Like anyone can program and sell or give away tetris or breakout, as long as they don't call it tetris or breakout Smile

This is why there so many tetris clones called Super Block Buster or something like this.

For instance Spin Jam on Playstation is kind of similar to Taito games, both in gameplay and type of characters. But they aren't exactly the same, so this is no problem.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (10088)

Imagen del wolf_

24-05-2004, 18:12

What is the platform? GBA?

grauw wrote:
a playable demo was published on MSX Magazine 2

so .. guess again..

btw, are you trying to flood mrc or what ?

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