What emulators support Joynet over Kalliera fo online MSX gaming?

Por dhau

Paragon (1570)

Imagen del dhau

24-05-2004, 19:41

Any one at all?

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Por Manuel

Ascended (18791)

Imagen del Manuel

24-05-2004, 19:53

None. Although openMSX has an experimental JoyNet implementation, it won't work in real life due to timing problems... (timing of JoyNet signals is quite crucial...)

By the way: what is Kalliera?

Por dhau

Paragon (1570)

Imagen del dhau

24-05-2004, 19:56

Ah! I made a mistake! It's not Kalliera, it's Kaillera (weird name if you ask me).

Here is the web site: http://www.kaillera.com/


Kaillera enables emulators to play on the Internet.

It consists of a client and a server. The client is usually embedded into your favorite emulator and the server is a stand-alone application that needs to be run on a machine directly wired to the Internet. Kaillera features:
- Small, fast and efficient C++ code.
- UDP use for better latency.
- Intelligent networking cache code.
- Multi-platform support.
- Low to no lag for players with good ping.
- Works through firewalls.
- LANs/WANs support

I guess it's not good for OpenMSX, because client is Windows only and both client and server is not open source. But for end user it gives great experience. I played some Genesis games on GENS emulatos with people on the other end of Earth, and all worked great, like he was next to me with his joypad ;)

Por DarQ

Paragon (1038)

Imagen del DarQ

24-05-2004, 19:58

openmsx's joynet implementation was over tcp/ip right? so no need for Kaillera Smile
still, its a pity that it isnt functional

Por dhau

Paragon (1570)

Imagen del dhau

24-05-2004, 20:00

Yeah, true and not. Well, you see, a lot of folks host Kaillera servers, and Kaillera client provide things similar to XBOX Life: matching services and find for games. It is better then just put your buddy IP and establish connect.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10581)

Imagen del Grauw

24-05-2004, 20:07

JoyNet is barely used - supporting an RS232 and the Philips MIDI interface over TCP/IP would be much more useful, I think.

~Grauw

Por dhau

Paragon (1570)

Imagen del dhau

24-05-2004, 20:56

Well, F1 Spirit does support JoyNet. And all new games in MSXDEV project could be requested to support it Wink

Por Grauw

Ascended (10581)

Imagen del Grauw

24-05-2004, 21:13

F1 Spirit 3D uses a similar cable, but it existed way before JoyNet was made up. JoyNet can extend to a whole network, while F1 Spirit 3D only works if you have two computers connected. Though that's basically nit-picking, JoyNet can indeed be said to be compatible with the F1-Spirit cable.

~Grauw

Por mth

Champion (506)

Imagen del mth

26-05-2004, 02:04

JoyNet is hard to emulate over long-distance TCP/IP. The JoyNet spec only describes the cables, not the protocol. So that means you'd have to send a packet for every bit that flips. That is OK if you send it to another process in the same machine, but over the net latency becomes a big problem.

One way to solve this is to make assumptions about the protocol, or emulate one specific protocol instead of emulating the JoyNet cables. However, this means that it's no longer possible to run all JoyNet games and pre-JoyNet games that use compatible cables.

What I'd like to implement in openMSX one day is a different approach to multiplayer: emulate (deterministically) the same MSX machine on two PCs and communicate the input events (key presses, joystick movements). Bandwidth requirements should be very low, latency requirements will allow LAN play and with some tricks probably internet play is possible as well.

Compared to JoyNet, the disadvantage is that you're limited to the number of input devices on a real MSX: 1 keyboard and 2 joysticks, by using a multi-tap (was successfully built in Japan) and sharing the keyboard with 2 players a maximum of 6 players is possible. With JoyNet there is no real limit: it all depends on the protocol. There is a huge advantage though: there are only a few JoyNet games, but there are many single-MSX multiplayer games (Super Runner, Rune Master, Bombaman etc).

About Kaillera and openMSX:
As long as their SDK is open or they publish good docs for communicating with the client, I don't mind if their client and server aren't open source (although I would prefer a fully open solution). However, the client not being available on Linux is a problem, because that's the only OS that Wouter and I (the openMSX core programmers) run.