Inferno style games

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Por PingPong

Prophet (3586)

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05-05-2014, 23:24

Grauw wrote:

But you can’t even render those 6 distinct objects with software sprites at 60 fps…

That's the point: you can trade fps for a number of objects. Just remember that 30fps is often enough, and when you start flickering you have to drop *always* at 30 or 20 or 15 fps. Even worse, and good for epileptic.

Quote:

So, software sprites are good if you don’t need a stable 60 fps or don’t mind moving at 8 pixel increments, like is the case for RPGs. However for action games, hardware sprites will usually be much more suitable and give you a lot more freedom in the level designs.

when someone told us that sw sprites mean 8 pixels steps in movement?

About lazyness i stay of my opinion. they used those hw sprites because if more easy to poke some x,y values in some memory location than to implement a kind of sw sprite routine. Even if one get worse to almost unaceptable levels. Rastan saga is an example of this with monochromatic enemy sprites (they can be realized with sw sprites). A true punch in your eye considering the richness of background

Por Grauw

Ascended (9487)

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07-06-2014, 15:50

PingPong wrote:

But i cannot find a number of games like inferno
Any other examples?

Fantasm Soldier: Valis II

Very impressive multi layer scroll btw, on the same level as Ys III and Akin.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3586)

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07-06-2014, 17:18

Grauw wrote:
PingPong wrote:

But i cannot find a number of games like inferno
Any other examples?

Fantasm Soldier: Valis II

Very impressive multi layer scroll btw, on the same level as Ys III and Akin.

Very impressive the slowness of this game too. With a little profiling however i've found that the main bottleneck is the z80, due to the huge amount of calculations needed to do differential tile plot.
I think inferno is different: it does massive gfx operations with sw sprites, dropping the 'scroll utopia' and uses the vdp at most, leaving the cpu for other tasks

Por Grauw

Ascended (9487)

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07-06-2014, 17:45

I’m sure a lot of people would like to see some new MSX2 games, me included, so… you can make one? Smile

Por Daemos

Paragon (1739)

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07-06-2014, 20:27

Don't worry Grauw. a few big MSX2 games are on the way Wink

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (118)

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07-06-2014, 20:37

PingPong wrote:

Very impressive the slowness of this game too.

Slowness? Most important is the gameplay, and it plays fine. Would it be any better if it was faster? I'm not convinced.

Por syn

Paragon (2003)

Imagen del syn

07-06-2014, 20:43

Grauw wrote:

I’m sure a lot of people would like to see some new MSX2 games, me included, so… you can make one? Smile

Me too actually! also I think a lot more people agree with me/us: http://www.msx.org/poll/i-would-see-new-games-being-made

So I'd say it's time to plug the #msxdev compo again I suppose ;)

I hope more ppl will join this competition, and maybe some of those will be with games aiming for msx2 or higher, so we can have a steady/yearly flow of nice stuff :D The first edition was imho a decent start, last year was a bit dissapointing, so lets hope people get their act together and start dev'ing ! :D

Por ARTRAG

Enlighted (6462)

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07-06-2014, 22:10

I'd evaluate the option to start a competition on mrc which has the largest public on msx scene

Por AxelStone

Prophet (2781)

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07-06-2014, 22:14

Grauw wrote:

As much as I like software sprites, I think it isn’t fair to say they were “lazy”. Hardware sprites have their own benefits, they are very fast and you can show tons of them on screen. Games like Aleste could not have been made with software sprites.

Finally, software sprites were used plenty on MSX2: SD Snatcher, Metal Gear 2, Ys series, Xak series… Yes predominantly RPGs but that is exactly because their pacing and framerate requirements suits software sprites well, whereas in an action game hardware sprites are often a better choice because you don’t want framerate to drop when you have more than a few enemies and projectiles on screen.

I totally agree with you, I think that hw sprites are better option than sw sprites in most games. The games with sw sprites rarely shows a good frame rate, instead hw sprites that shows a massive amount of srites at great speed. Talking about design, there are games with incredible hw sprites like Metal Gear, Usas or Hinotori where I really don't think that sw sprites could improve the graphics but could deteriorate the frame rate.

I think that Valis II is not a good example for sw sprites since its frame rate is really low for an action game. I should prefer hardware sprites as first Valis where you get a full screen scroll at a really stunning speed.

Por syn

Paragon (2003)

Imagen del syn

07-06-2014, 22:42

ARTRAG wrote:

I'd evaluate the option to start a competition on mrc which has the largest public on msx scene

For the past 2 editions I have spammed MRC with info/posts about the #msxdev compo so I highly doubt anyone who visited MRC didn't knew about it.... Also MRC had a banner for it in the topright corner. And anyone can enter so its not as if we are excluding people (aka the same target public as mrc can participate)

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