The end of #msxdev Compo

Oh, that is a pitty to hear. I always liked this one as any hardware could be used.

I also deeply feel inside that MSX2 is the true MSX thing... but that's quite personal of course. (Note that my favourite MSX game is MSX1 and that I used MSX1 for about 7 years...)

There's always a lot of talking about expert technical stuff but hardly any games coming out of it. I always wonder. Most vaporware started out too ambituous. MSX2 games don't have to be 'big' to impress.

I think Johnny has it spot on by saying that MSX2 game projects are often ambitious, it takes a lot of perseverence to follow it through until the end and not everyone can do it (I’m talking from my personal experience ). MSX1 game designs seem to be naturally less ambitious and thus have a higher success rate.

Generic game engines might help, especially if they also support Basic. Then again, how many games based on Dante2 and VScreen have we seen?

The games for msx2 only appear in cartridge format. There a simply reason...

It just means that some coders reserve their work to the last pure MSX fans, considering emulation as blasphemy (but though useful for developing, oh it's schizophrenia ). And as most MSX users of emulators don't visit MRC or other active MSX websites, they simply don't know the existence of new MSX(2) games, so they are not in the situation to eventually buy a digital version if it was available !

Both worlds are turning in circles in 2 different universes. For me, it's even more simple: the games that are not available in digital format don't exist!

\wrong. my game Pixie dust. its as a dos file. so no cartridge format. and that was made to for #msxdev compo

Sad thing a good initiative is gone, destroyed by some of the community.
Lack of interest, no time for coding.. Still stuff is being released, Why not putting that stuff up for a contest?
Enough possibilities there, but everyone always finds a way out with some kind of reason, truth or lie doesn't matter.
Some do have actual valid reasons. But entire community, meh.

And what Arkhan said, how hard is it to use IRC? Some websites like mine on CheatMSX even offer a webchat application, so people have the ability to join the chat, without even installing a client, just a simple click away from entering the rooms.

And once, if you are in the room and might have problems, there are certainly always people to help out.

I'm sorry to see the #msxdev competition did not manage to gain more momentum & am one of many who would like to see more MSX2/2+/turboR releases. For that reason I joined the first edition with Latok and for that reason I'm slowly working with Latok on a new project that's been suffering from quite a few delays, but we're sticking to the "no pressure" adagium. When it's ready, we'll see if there's a competition we can enter it in or that we'll release it as a stand-alone kind of thing.

I have to say though, instead of focusing on an audacious poll that will go into the history books as an affront to the whole of mankind, a little bit of self-reflection might not hurt. To my experience, a compo for MSX can only be successful if you spend a lot of time and energy on promotion, promotion and promotion. In the MRC Challenges that did not go as planned we failed to dedicate enough energy to promoting the challenge and 'keep the fire burning' throughout the course of the competition. Perhaps it's a bit different for MSXDev, due to its history and reputation, but for newcomers like #msxdev and single-shots like MRC Challenges this is definitely the case. And in that aspect, I'm sorry to say so, but putting a single website online and hiding in a small IRC channel is simply not enough. Perhaps it should be, but hey... that's real life for ya...

Aww cute, now you made me laugh! Thanks for sharing the fun.

Once again: do not feed the trolls. Do not even look at them when they are in "drama queen" mode.

Anyway I suspect that a competition held by mrc would have had a bit more success (not much more but it could have lasted one or two years longher). You cannot neglect that the vast majority of the msx users is on msx.org and not elsewhere.

LOL... Well, we all know the reason for that. It's also the same reason why the link to www.msx.org disapeared from the links section of this website:

http://www.m-v-m.nl/node/10

Talking about being childish...

guyver800 is not a member of mvm and he did only build the side for mvm in 2007. after that nothing to do with it.

I think indeed it is funny that there is a big difference between what people want and what is being made.
I've heard it over and over again that people like to see MSX2 and higher games/software, yet the majority of releases are MSX1. I mean, outside of contests/compos, how many MSX2 and up games have come out the last few years? I cant count many tbh.

I don't know if the releasing of generic engines will help. I have a feeling most of the MSX dev scene is interested in coding as the main thing, and delivering a game comes second. Or that whoever makes a game, feels they should create everything/most of the game code by themselves.

Also skill level may differ compared to the source of the engine or the ability to understand coding may not be up to standard. You know that my first try at assembly was looking at the code of X-tazy (the v9990 + moonsound game). One of my later tries was looking at Vscreen (this was I think 4 months after I started learning ASM). Both times I felt lost and figured coding things myself may take equal or less time compared trying to understand the existing sources.

Thank you for giving a good explaination of your situation. I like the many techdemos that you post, enjoy the videos of stuff you made. And I always felt it is a shame you never make anything concrete with it, and now I know why. I hope Uridiums success may change that I agree that designing a game takes more than "just make a scroll engine", and probably lots of ideas/project get halted/cancelled because of this. (basically what John said in an earlier post)

This is a good point. Remember in the year of the first edition (2012) we had the MRC Tenliners Challenge (19! entries), karoshi MSXdev '12 (3 entries), MSXdev '11 which also ended that year (9 entries) and MSX-village christmas compo (7 entries), on top of the #msxdev Compo with 9 entries. Regardless of size/scope of the projects, I thought that showed a lot of activity in the scene, compared to what is happening lately.

Maybe, but I doubt that there are many MRC users who didn't know about the Compo since there have been many newsposts on MRC about it. There was even a banner for the first edition at top of the site, and most if not all newsposts regarding it had been highlighted. So I don't think was the problem.

TNI site or #msxdev Compo website? or do you mean msxbanzai?

I felt the website for the compo (http://msxbanzai.tni.nl/compo/) made by Lordzett/Darkstone was good, nothing prehistoric about that. Clear layout, good use of colors and not to clogged up with unneeded stuff. You do realize that if we added a forum to the #msxdev website people would have needed register right, while the IRC voting did not? The IRC voting could have been done by going to the webIRC client link that I have provided on numberous occasions. Just a few clicks and some typing, no registration required. If this was too much trouble then I don't know. In worst case you would have spend 5 minutes on a vote for a game that you have spend hours playing.

....

What does the removal a link to a website not related to the compo, on a website not related to the compo, have to do with the lack of "interactive elements" on a compo's website??

Regardless of who actually removed the link, why is it childish to remove a link to a website in the first place? It is still someone's website, who has his or her idea/plans for it. Is there a list somewhere with every site that everyone MUST link to? I have a facebook page, with no link to MRC. I also haven't liked the MRC facebookpage because it is just a repost of msx.org newsitems. Am I childish for not linking/liking? no! it is my facebook profile, I decided what to do with it.

I felt that there had been enough promotion on MRC for the compo (I mention MRC specifically because afaik most of the other news sites will followup/report on whatever MRC reports in their own language, plus MRC is the biggest MSX website at the moment). MRC had posted about the first edition and so did I for the last few years. Ofcourse, there always have been more posts about the MSXdev 'xx (Karoshi), but that is mainly due to the amount of submissions (eg most news is regarding some new entry). The same goes for the MRC challenges and the music contests. Besides newsposts, I (and many others from #msxdev) mentioned the compo numberous times to people during random conversations so I don't think we could have done more. Maybe more reminder-newsposts on MRC but I always felt the reminders that I wrote were just about the maximum I could do without becoming spam-like. But maybe thats my self-imposed too strict net-etiquette talking here, dunno.

*edit* I have to add that GuyveR800 was actually handing out flyers and talking to developers in Spain about the Compo. so as you can see, people were not hiding in an IRC channel.

Me too, and I suposse that a lot f people thinks similar. I can't understand why msxdev'xx limits the entries to small MSX1 roms (48Kb was the limit?), this limit a lot the posibilities

You did what you could, no problem. Advertising was fine. I am sorry I wasnt there. I wanted to, but I know myself that I am not that motivated to work on msx games lately (slowly changing though) so I figured my presence there would have been a waste of space.

I dont know if ASM workshops work. I thought about it. I actually explained the basics of ASM to a guy once (i was caught offguard so I didnt prepare a story), but I think, judging from that experience, the best way to learn it is to just do it. So imho, if you would organize a workshop you would for example need some setup where there is a computer for every (few) attendee.

With that in mind, maybe good tutorials are more beneficial? Or maybe a webcast/tutorial video that folks can watch over and over again? Or is there enough information out there already in the shape of books/pdf/websites? What do you think?

I have to say I am a beginner myself as well, and don't really have the urge to give workshops myself. Workshops crossed my mind only briefly, and only because GuyveR800 suggested I should maybe document my journey as a beginner. The reasoning behind it was that for seasoned coders it is often difficult to understand what newbies run into during their first steps, what their struggles are. Like things that are very basic to veterans may be too complex /deep for beginners and vice versa: maybe pros overestimate certain beginner problems. He specifically asked me "what was the point where it truly clicked? what was your "aha!" moment?".

Based on that I still have the intention to write a short tutorial for the absolute beginner... sometimes
Something in the shape/style of a diary.

You are right about interaction. Guyv also says that that is important, that's why he prefers discussing things through chat over "let someone read a book".

syn:

Thumbs up, do it. I'd prefer that much over a tutorial. Make a MSX game or whatever and post a dev-blog.

General remark about chat: it depends also on the channel you get into whether it works or not. I regularly seek technical help on IRC on several topics. On some channels the people on it and the atmosphere are compatible with me (so, including my level and experience on the topic) and on others it isn't. So, on some channels, I get into a fruitful chat, meaning that I get helpful reactions and I learn stuff. On other channels I get no reaction at all, or all other people are also beginners or they are at such a high level that they're not interested to help beginners. In some channels you feel welcome on others you don't.

Anyway, if one chat room didn't work for you, maybe others will. Of course different channels have different people with different expertise and experience. So your mileage may very. I still think chat is 2nd best to face2face (well, if I skip a videoconference-like setup). But that's just my personal opinion of course

I think what Daemos says is very true. To understand something and to be able to teach it are two completely different things. Particularly when someone doesn't understand your explanation and you have to follow his train of thought, notice where the problem is and find a different way to explain the same thing. So in their defense: perhaps it's not that they're not interested, but because they realize they can't easily teach the knowledge that is in their heads.

Looking forward to read it. Don' t hesitate to contact me in organizing something fun based on the info you post. Your well documented experiences will serve well for all those trying to learn coding!