Somebody knows the criterion used to include SCC in Konami games?

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Por AxelStone

Prophet (2664)

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02-09-2016, 13:24

Since its arrival in Nemesis 2, a lot of Konami games used this wonderful sound chip. For MSX users, SCC is a hallmark. However, certain good games where launched without SCC as Hinotori, Usas, Maze of Galious... They were launched in 1987 too, and since they are megaroms (Memory mapped needed), why not include SCC?

Someone knows what was the key factor to decide SCC yes or not?

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Por snout

Ascended (15187)

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02-09-2016, 13:56

I'd assume it's one of these reasons (or a combination thereof):

  • The music for those games might already have been composed before the SCC was available
  • There might have been a special reason to include SCC in Nemesis 2 first and/or keep it somewhat extra unique at first - if only to answer the question if the cost of adding an extra sound chip would be worth it
  • The time-to-market for SCC was not clear enough to risk the release of many large titles on
  • Project development/planning was already at a stage where adding SCC would not be a sensible investment
  • Konami coders were not familiar enough with SCC yet to simply add in a different music relpayer without causing a whole heap of other problems
  • Judging from the RC numbers Maze of Galious (RC749) and Hinotori (RC747) were released before Nemesis 2 (RC751), so it might have been chronologically impossible for those specific titles?

Por tfh

Paragon (1776)

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02-09-2016, 14:00

No idea :-)
But I do remember when I read the review of Nemesis 2 (I think in the MSX-Gids), I got my bankpass, pinned 80 guilders and went to a computershop to buy the game. I placed the cartridge in my Toshiba HX-10, which was hooked up to a simple B/W TV-set and switched it on.
The next 30 minutes or so, I watched & listened the intro demo over & over again, and also viewed the different stages. I was SO impressed with the music (and visuals).

BTW, F1 Spirit was developed BEFORE Nemesis 2. See the SCC Wiki: https://www.msx.org/wiki/SCC

Por AxelStone

Prophet (2664)

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02-09-2016, 14:16

snout wrote:

I'd assume it's one of these reasons (or a combination thereof):

  • The music for those games might already have been composed before the SCC was available
  • There might have been a special reason to include SCC in Nemesis 2 first and/or keep it somewhat extra unique at first - if only to answer the question if the cost of adding an extra sound chip would be worth it
  • The time-to-market for SCC was not clear enough to risk the release of many large titles on
  • Project development/planning was already at a stage where adding SCC would not be a sensible investment
  • Konami coders were not familiar enough with SCC yet to simply add in a different music relpayer without causing a whole heap of other problems
  • Judging from the RC numbers Maze of Galious (RC749) and Hinotori (RC747) were released before Nemesis 2 (RC751), so it might have been chronologically impossible for those specific titles?

You are right, there are only 2 games with RC release after Nemesis 2:

RC 753 2 JE 128 PSG 1987 Usas
RC 754 1 J 256 PSG 1987 Shalom (Knightmare 3)

So there are only 2 games launched without SCC after its introduction in RC751 (Nemesis 2).

Por Sandy Brand

Master (150)

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03-09-2016, 12:47

Other possible reasons:

- Performance and memory: You'd not think of it being such a big issue but writing more output to all the extra sound channels and storing the extra song data somewhere in memory can be a problem if your game is already on a very tight CPU/memory budget.

- Tooling: Maybe some of the tools they had back then for authoring the songs (and sound effects!) were not mature enough and there were literally only a handful of people who could do it. If these were already assigned to work on something else, some projects might have just had to do without.

Or it could just be a simple case of office politics where some people just couldn't stand to work together, who knows Tongue

Por Randam

Paladin (916)

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03-09-2016, 13:29

@snout Like tfh already noted:
The first game SCC was developed for was F1 spirit as was revealed in some interview I read. F1 spirit just was released later than Gradius 2.

@Sandy Brand:
The person who thought up the idea of the SCC (Kazuhiro Uehara) also worked on Shalom and Usas. I think he did do at least some of the tooling of sound effects and music. Also Usas has quite a few musicians so probably some could have worked with SCC at that time. Perhaps more likely that music had already been done for those games or some other reason like performance, monetary reasons etc.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15631)

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03-09-2016, 14:25

Perhaps someone should do SCC versions of the Usas and Shalom music and implement themin the game Smile These games have some of the most advanced PSG music I know though Smile

Por Vampier

Prophet (2295)

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04-09-2016, 07:49

those games don't need no SCC Tongue

Por Randam

Paladin (916)

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04-09-2016, 09:44

That is an awesome idea, Manuel.

Por PAC

Guardian (5213)

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04-09-2016, 12:44

Manuel wrote:

Perhaps someone should do SCC versions of the Usas and Shalom music and implement themin the game Smile These games have some of the most advanced PSG music I know though Smile

We already have the full Usas soundtrack in SCC made by Koichiro. They are superb compositions and in my opinion if you don't know this even you might think they are made by Konami itself. Any volunteer? Smile

https://www.msx.org/news/music/en/koichiros-mgsdrv-works-6th...

Por Victor

Champion (468)

Imagen del Victor

04-09-2016, 15:55

PAC wrote:

We already have the full Usas soundtrack in SCC made by Koichiro. They are superb compositions and in my opinion if you don't know this even you might think they are made by Konami itself. Any volunteer? Smile

Where can I find an ASM driver for the .MGS or the .MUS??? anybody could help me?

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