MSXDev'07 specs - discussion

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Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

Imagen del anonymous

27-09-2006, 12:32

Well...

I agree the ones who think that the specs for the next Dev shouldn't be upgraded.

-People can't make games good enough to worth a better specifications.

-Nobody has still beaten some Konami games such as MoG. Nobody. Ok, maybe it depends on what you call a 'good game'. I think 'Bombaman', for example, is a crappy game although it has tons of colors, gfx and "musics". But nowadays, people usually forget what should be a real game: a thing that makes me have a fun time. Spectacular graphics, sounds and effects don't achieve that result by themselves.

-If you raise the specs for the Dev, only one or two entries will be finished since most people will cancel their participation.

-The lower specs, the more democratic competition: more equality between contestants. Furthermore, it takes advantage of best compatibility and others.

Greetings.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9778)

Imagen del wolf_

27-09-2006, 12:55

I think it's quite MSXDev'ish to at least stick to a ROM as game medium.

Por Huey

Prophet (2644)

Imagen del Huey

27-09-2006, 13:10

As MSXdev is a yearly event. It is meant as a competition for games with dev time of max one year.
I fully agree with the initial spec of the first MSXdev's. And i has proven to bee a good furmula.

But on the other hand. We (ARTRAG and me) want to make a game that simply doesn't fit the 48kb ROM + 16kb RAM limit (esp ROM space is not enough). So we could decide not to participate and release it anyway.
But I think there still is a need to put our game on a certain "display". MSXdev is such an exellent display and probably the best for now).

This "display" will encourage others to make new games (just like me; who really stoped all MSX activities long ago but accidentally stumbled over the Cure and UU). MSXdev (and the help on MRC and ofcourse ARTRAG) got me hooked again on MSX. Thanks for that.

Even if we will be disqualified due to not being conform the specs. I still want our game to be avaiable on the MSXdev site. I don't care for winnig a Turbo-r or not (it will be difficult to split up the prize as we are living in Italy and the Netherlands Tongue). Eternal fame will do Tongue

I don't know if anyone understands what I'm saying but I think it comes to this:

I think we need a general platform for MSX1 ROM game development: MSXdev contest + MSXdev archive + tool Archive + How to archive.
Something like "nesdev.parodius.com" + MSXdev + "www.the-underdogs.info"
This should be valueable for both MSX-scene and other retroscenes.

Por Huey

Prophet (2644)

Imagen del Huey

27-09-2006, 13:12

As an extra note: I agree there should be some limits to the development:

1. it should be MSX1
2. Medium is ROM or tape

Extra extra note:

I do want to share our game code/tools/methods etc. with everyone after completing our game. Providing these will also make it easier (for new developers) to get started on developing. And hopefully result in more entries......

Por Manuel

Ascended (15839)

Imagen del Manuel

27-09-2006, 13:16

-If you raise the specs for the Dev, only one or two entries will be finished since most people will cancel their participation.

Why would that happen? And how could it? That one (MSXdev '07) didn't start yet...

Anyway, I'd go for:
- MSX1, 32kB RAM (just to make it a bit easier), 128kB ROM max
I don't think anyone will be disappointed by this and I don't think the bigger RAM size will decrease the chance of finishing entries. I think that the big increase of ROM size has more influence on that than the small increase of RAM size.

Maybe it's also interesting to do:
- V9938, 64kB RAM, 16kB VRAM, 128KB ROM (e.g.: Spectravideo SVI-738 and any MSX2 and up Smile
or the same with 64 or 128kB VRAM. But that should then be done in parallel. The MSX1 contest rules, but the V9938 is the first "real" MSX VDP (not used on other computers), so that could be interesting as well.

Por snout

Ascended (15187)

Imagen del snout

27-09-2006, 13:23

First of all: I think this discussion is premature. Somehow I get the idea that, due to the cancellations, some people already deem the MSXdev'06 competition to be 'failed', which is certainly not the case. As the MSXdev team have stated several times (and previous editions have already shown): there's a lot of development action going on which has not been announced. Also, don't forget that in MSXdev'05 a few (at least one) games were entered that did not make it in time for MSXdev'04. Perhaps some of the projects that have been cancelled in MSXdev'06 will make it in time for MSXdev'07 as well. Considering the MSXdev'06 competition to be a failure now already might result in a self-fulfilling-prophecy. So lets stay positive for now, shall we? I'm sure we will see many surprising games released in the MSXdev'06 competition in the last quarter of the year.

Second, I do have to agree that a certain limitation of specifications (or other boundaries in a challenge, like MRC does with e.g. themes) help in people trying to develop a project that is doable and likely to be finished in time. If increasing the RAM specs from 16kB to 32kB makes the life of developers so much easier that more entries are likely to be expected, then that might be an interesting approach for next year. That said - I think it's good to wait until MSXdev'06 has closed though, to evaluate the amount of entries vs. cancelled entries, the quality of entries compared to previous years and to set the level for the MSXdev'07 competition.

Huey - You have a good point. Competitions and deadlines (like we used to have the fairs in the old days) are very decent boosts to motivation. I'm a bit curious on why you don't feel the MRC (with thousands of visitors and hundreds of downloads per month) to be a good platform for the distribution of these games though, as you didn't seem to consider that option in your post.

Por Huey

Prophet (2644)

Imagen del Huey

27-09-2006, 14:21

I'm a bit curious on why you don't feel the MRC (with thousands of visitors and hundreds of downloads per month) to be a good platform for the distribution of these games though, as you didn't seem to consider that option in your post.

MRC is THE MSX portal IMHO. But it is also very general (which is a good thing). But not for this kind of information. If you put everything into the existing structure the articles/tools/games, and so on, they tend to get "lost" in the crowd...... AND I think MSXdev should have a repository for information on how to make a game.

I think MRC is there to discuss development in the forum but not for providing the technical data. Don't you guys already have enough to do?

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9778)

Imagen del wolf_

27-09-2006, 14:25

There's a point, I don't think it's bad to have certain scene activities spread accross various sites. As I mentioned earlier, games never took of @ MRC challenges, MSXDev has built a reputation and could house the game-creating activities of the scene.

Por pitpan

Prophet (3131)

Imagen del pitpan

27-09-2006, 14:32

I'm a bit curious on why you don't feel the MRC (with thousands of visitors and hundreds of downloads per month) to be a good platform for the distribution of these games though, as you didn't seem to consider that option in your post.

MRC is THE MSX portal IMHO. But it is also very general (which is a good thing). But not for this kind of information. If you put everything into the existing structure the articles/tools/games, and so on, they tend to get "lost" in the crowd...... AND I think MSXdev should have a repository for information on how to make a game.

I think MRC is there to discuss development in the forum but not for providing the technical data. Don't you guys already have enough to do?

About the repository, it was the original purpose of MSX Workshop: to concentrate docs, tools and apps for MSX1 game development. This has been only partially accomplished: some tech docs, including unpublished ones, some tools (WAVeR, WAV2Bit, PCX2MSX, MSXWAV, etc), some apps (asMSX) and snippets/opensource games (PONG, MINESWEEPER and more to come). Its intention is to be focused on game development, not in general development and/or pure programmation techniques.

MAP, Hans Otten's pages and others are much more complete. I learnt a lot by browsing those pages.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9778)

Imagen del wolf_

27-09-2006, 14:35

I wonder why there are the so-called secret projects. We also don't tell what we're doing (hehe! Tongue), but at least we registered the fact that we are doing something. I'd ask all those ppl who are doing something for this year, but didn't register their entry, to do so .. leave the details open if you want it all to be a secret, but at least tell us you're working on something. This would actually greatly contribute to this discussion as one of the discussion point is that due raised specs some ppl might not participate at all!

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