MSXDev'07 specs - discussion

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Por Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

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28-09-2006, 01:57

@JJ: I don't suppose you could make a faster version which uses a small buffer and can use the V9938 as well? Now that'd be *really* handy! Tongue

Por DamageX

Master (217)

Imagen del DamageX

28-09-2006, 07:57

OK, I will tell you a secret Wink I am working on a turn-based strategy game for MSXdev '06 (hopefully I will finish!)

I chose to work with a 48KB ROM. This way it is easy to test it on my own MSX. A game that uses 32/48KB ROM and 16KB RAM can be loaded and run from RAM on any MSX with 64KB right? For a 128KB ROM you need a RAM expansion or flash cart or something. How many people have only MSX1 but have the hardware needed to play a 128KB ROM?

I think 48KB+16KB is a good limit for the contest because that would probably allow the most people to play it on their MSX (or am I wrong?) Or how about this for MSXdev '07... you can make a 48KB ROM - OR - you can make a megaROM but then you also have to make a disk-based version

I also would like to see a separate compo for MSX2 games.

Por JJLopez

Rookie (22)

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28-09-2006, 08:45

@JJ: I don't suppose you could make a faster version which uses a small buffer and can use the V9938 as well? Now that'd be *really* handy! Tongue

For no repeat in two forums same words, please, this questions in new thread or the best, in the thread of Karoshi forum, ok?

Por ARTRAG

Enlighted (6406)

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28-09-2006, 09:22

About compression...
more ram allows to compress also the code with a very brute force approach...

Actually, with 64K ram one could use high level languages like C, compiling the code with a very simple memory layout (say 48Krom + 16Kram), pack all the stuff and store the result in a in a single rom page (say 16Krom).
At the moment of the need , you unpack and run it in ram (64Kram needed).
Do the procedure 2-3 times (for example for 2-3 levels of the game that should work independently) and you get a 48K packed rom that is:
1) written in C, (easy to develop and manage)
2) equivalent to a megarom

I know that this is crappy programming, but also those shortcuts can help to develop faster....

I vote that somewhere in the msxdev we should allow 48Krom + 64Kram :-)

Por ARTRAG

Enlighted (6406)

Imagen del ARTRAG

28-09-2006, 09:24

PS
I have some problems to integrate msx page mapping and bank switching with the hitech C. This compiler supports many flavours of rom and paged ram but none of them close to the crappy MSX slot management (they claims to support expanded memory on the Z180 and 64180, and user-defined banked memory on any other Z80 device, but, at the moment I cannot say how it works).

does anyone have faced the problem?
does anyone has experience with the z180 in order to uderstand how
to adapt his memory management to msx bankswitch ?

Por drbyte

Supporter (6)

Imagen del drbyte

28-09-2006, 09:37


ps. welcome to MRC and its neverending discussions Tongue

Thanks. Your reply is very interesting and you give several good reasons.
(I hope this "neverending story" doesn't steal much time from your Dev project !)

So, if several people agree, the choice of 128KB ROM+32KB RAM sounds well for next year's rules. Even 64KB of non-mapped RAM should be, despite many MSX1 have only 32KB of RAM (I've got one of these). Maybe easier allow as RAM as you want, but consider as positive the less usage of it.
If it helps to get better games, I see no problem in using more RAM. Most of us also own a MSX2/2+/TR machine, plenty of RAM, so, nearly everybody will play the games.

But this way it seems necessary to split the contest in two categories: Small and Big.
For example, 48KB ROM + 16 KB RAM as Small, and 128KB ROM+64KB RAM as Big.
So, people with few time or with no collaborators can fight for a prize.
I even miss a 8KB ROM category ...

But of course, the MSX-Dev team is who has to take the final decision about next year's contest. I only try to give some clues, as most of you are doing here.

Por viejo_archivero

Paragon (1387)

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28-09-2006, 09:58

But of course, the MSX-Dev team is who has to take the final decision about next year's contest. I only try to give some clues, as most of you are doing here.

True, but we are not alone in the world Smile, it is very interesting to check everyone's opinion. Without any doubt, we will consider every comment from users. So thanks drbyte and all for your reactions.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9813)

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28-09-2006, 12:47

(I hope this "neverending story" doesn't steal much time from your Dev project !)

Last night we changed the storyconcept again (we keep the engine), I have now, like, 3 months left to draw, map and compose the whole game Big smile So if we succeed, it's proof one could create a MegaROM in half a year of which only a few months are really intensive! ^_^

But, I think it'll be an improvement, it'll be a highly original game for any MSX type! (haven't seen one like this yet on MSX)

Por spl

Paragon (1466)

Imagen del spl

28-09-2006, 12:57

Actually, I don't know why this kind of dicussing: if you want to do a 16 KB game, you can do it with MSX DEV 06 rules. If you want to do any of the games of last MSX DEV 05, you can do it. MSX DEV 06 rules are more "open", but you are allowed to do everything you want, so what's really the problem with MSX DEV 06 rules?

Yours,

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

Imagen del anonymous

28-09-2006, 13:46


Last night we changed the storyconcept again (we keep the engine), I have now, like, 3 months left to draw, map and compose the whole game Big smile So if we succeed, it's proof one could create a MegaROM in half a year of which only a few months are really intensive! ^_^

Well, as far as I know, the MSX2 BombJack is a game made from scratch and it took 20 days only (including packaging, promotion, etc.) The ASM complex routines in that game are awesome and it is megarom-sized (as a matter of fact, the disk version is a 360KB one, but there is a megarom version for internal purposes).
The GFX and Musics are also a remake of the original ones (not a sort of software-conversion or something).

The BJ Team is very humble at this point since they don't speak about that many often (maybe never?).

In the other hand, you are saying that "last night you changed the storyconcept again". As far I as understand, isn't there a previous design of the whole game? I think this is the typical mistake in amateur games.
The reason Konami games are good is the great game design which is even more important than how the thing has been implemented.

No matter how many thousands of colors, screen, maps, megabytes, sound channels, etc. you use for your game: if it isn't well-designed, it can't be a good game.

Greetings.

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