MSXDev'07 specs - discussion

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Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9789)

Imagen del wolf_

28-09-2006, 13:50

It's related to the story, not the engine. We had several ideas about a story, but it's either not scientifically approved (*cough* by far *cough*), or it's just too much work. You see, every story detail has to be drawn also, so creating a story is one thing.. realizing it is another.. Tongue You know, I typically want something more than 'save the princess from the evil dragon' orso. But I think I'll take a whole new approach now.

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

Imagen del anonymous

28-09-2006, 14:00

It's related to the story, not the engine. We had several ideas about a story, but it's either not scientifically approved (*cough* by far *cough*), or it's just too much work. You see, every story detail has to be drawn also, so creating a story is one thing.. realizing it is another.. Tongue You know, I typically want something more than 'save the princess from the evil dragon' orso. But I think I'll take a whole new approach now.

So at this moment, do you have a game-in-process or the engine only?
If you don't have a previous gamedesign, what do you need an engine for?

I think a game must be designed completely (storyline, situations, cases, menus, screen, characters, behaviours, I mean everything!) before start the very first piece of code.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9789)

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28-09-2006, 14:06

the game genre remains the same .. just another story, other gfx .. just like switching from Vampire Killer to Usas.

Por Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Imagen del Sonic_aka_T

28-09-2006, 14:12


Quote:
I think a game must be designed completely (storyline, situations, cases, menus, screen, characters, behaviours, I mean everything!) before start the very first piece of code.That's not often practical. Especially not if you're trying to push the MSX to the limits. A lot of times I would have to rewrite part of a story, or heck, I'd end up with a completely different game because some trick I wanted to do didn't work or wasn't fast enough. Ideally, yeah, you'd want to get most of your script-writing and planning out of the way before you start coding. In practice though, it's often not the fastest way to dev, and not the most motivating either. And I'd say motivation is pretty much 75% of the current project mortality rate. Even more important than time. If you're really motivated, you try to make some time...

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

Imagen del anonymous

28-09-2006, 15:04

the game genre remains the same .. just another story, other gfx .. just like switching from Vampire Killer to Usas.

(O_O)
They are two absolutely different games!! They have a different game design regarding every aspect of the game! (except for some basic routines that have nothing to do with the game itself).
I can't see your point when you consider "to switch from VK to Usas" as a "story change".

I can stablish an useful analogy with traditional architecture. When you are creating a new building you have to design it completely before starting to dig the hole where the buliding will be raised.

If you begin to construct the roof and walls first, I bet the building will collapse at some point.

Por anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

Imagen del anonymous

28-09-2006, 15:11


Quote:
I think a game must be designed completely (storyline, situations, cases, menus, screen, characters, behaviours, I mean everything!) before start the very first piece of code.That's not often practical. Especially not if you're trying to push the MSX to the limits. A lot of times I would have to rewrite part of a story, or heck, I'd end up with a completely different game because some trick I wanted to do didn't work or wasn't fast enough. Ideally, yeah, you'd want to get most of your script-writing and planning out of the way before you start coding. In practice though, it's often not the fastest way to dev, and not the most motivating either. And I'd say motivation is pretty much 75% of the current project mortality rate. Even more important than time. If you're really motivated, you try to make some time...

This style of 'thinking' is the main reason we haven't good amateur games, specially those games trying to emulate the Amiga or SNES with lots of unuseful stuff and horrible playability and gameplay.

Ok, let's continue making games 'in the practical way', guys.... The next MSXDev is yours for sure.

I'll continue playing classic games (^_^)

Por JJLopez

Rookie (22)

Imagen del JJLopez

28-09-2006, 15:21

the game genre remains the same .. just another story, other gfx .. just like switching from Vampire Killer to Usas.

If you begin to construct the roof and walls first, I bet the building will collapse at some point.

Stop Warau! He is Wolf. He can make a building with 64k of Ram.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9789)

Imagen del wolf_

28-09-2006, 15:42

JJ, will you cut it out please?

warau: don't worry tho. At this point in the developmenttraject only the gfx and the story changes, nothing else. To get back on the VK vs Usas comparison, take Usas then and replace the gfx with Northpole-style gfx, change Wit and Cles with a Polarbear and an Eskimo, replace the 4 moods with 4 seals.. what we're doing is more like that.

Por drbyte

Supporter (6)

Imagen del drbyte

28-09-2006, 16:04

It's very sad to see how people that make lots of things and give so many details about their work are criticized.
It's more easy to be quiet and only speak to destroy other people's work.

If you like to do things in a different way, then do them.

I will value the Dev games by the result, not by the name or by the way they have been done.

Making creative games is different than making a version. Making a version may be hard, but you always know what to do and when to stop. Creative games are more difficult, not for the coding but the concept, story, ... there is not a clear path to follow or a final point.

People participating at MSX-Dev are not being payed like Konami's employees, have not all the day to work, have not so many people in the team, and maybe they are still begginers. With no begginers, no masters.

And the analogy with the architecture, is poor.
I prefer to see a game like a city. You can make several buildings, and with the time, adding new ones, or demolish and replace old ones.
Do you think you can design and build a complete city? No, unless you copy the design from another city. So, you will have another Paris or Rome, but not an original city.

About playing only classics is living in the past. They are good but not enough.
If really only interested in classics, what are you saying here where people are interested in new games?

As said before, it's easier to destroy other people's work than making own work.

Por JJLopez

Rookie (22)

Imagen del JJLopez

28-09-2006, 16:13

JJ, will you cut it out please?

warau: don't worry tho. At this point in the developmenttraject only the gfx and the story changes, nothing else. To get back on the VK vs Usas comparison, take Usas then and replace the gfx with Northpole-style gfx, change Wit and Cles with a Polarbear and an Eskimo, replace the 4 moods with 4 seals.. what we're doing is more like that.

Wolf. I bit of ironic humour can be good. Wink

But, this is horrible. Sad

You can say tons of (for me, eye) silly things about games, development, etc ... and I can't talk with a bit of humour.

Your rights in this forum are highger?

And ... I don't understand this example from Usas ... if you replace gfx with Northpole-style... is a VK? (lol)

Sorry, is not USAS is a Ice cream. XD

Your example is very poor. I'm the only in this forum that see this things?

Hey! If you can accept my advice (in this moment, after of personal discussions is very complex, I know) : Please, humble. I bit of humble in your words.

You talk like you are the best designer, coder and musician of all of times in MSX. This way is wrong. You can have a bad fall ... and your fantastic world will be destroyed.

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