MSX1 vs C64

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Por Grauw

Ascended (10159)

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31-01-2018, 11:59

Samor wrote:

A similar thing happens in many Mega Drive games (I think the Mega Drive sounds similar-ish to FMPAC+PSG with the addition of better drum effects).

And for the drums MegaDrive used PCM. But, the reason why many MD games sound very same-ish is because many games (especially western ones) only used a limited set of not that well-designed preset voices from GEMS / SMPS.

FM-wise the MegaDrive’s YM2612 OPN2 sound chip is of equal quality to the YM2151 OPM used in many arcade games with fantastic music, with 6 channels of 4-op FM, plus a PSG sound generator. Technically it can match itself with the best of FM synthesis of the era.

Por ren

Paragon (1887)

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31-01-2018, 12:04

@Samor: no, was more like a follow up to Grauw's post.

Por Metalion

Paragon (1451)

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31-01-2018, 12:49

AFAIK, nobody mentioned the biggest technical difference between SID and PSG : the waveforms.
- PSG has only ne waveform available : square.
- SID has three : sawtooth, triangle, and rectangle pulse.
That's already there a clear advantage over the PSG.

And furthermore, from my point of view, the main advantage of the SID are the cut-off filters. That's what gives it its warmer sound, with more bass.

I must say I was disappointed by the PSG when I got my MSX in 1984. My neighbour had a C64. The graphics were better on the MSX, but there was no match for the C64 sound.

Por JohnHassink

Ambassador (5591)

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31-01-2018, 13:01

@ Metalion: PingPong mentioned that.

PingPong wrote:

Effectively the SID (...) features triangle and sawtooth waves and a ADSR control and a kind of 'ring' modulation

Anyway, about this discussion, I think comparing specs is secondary. In the end it's subjective preferences. You can show me this car

And say it has 300.000 PK horsepower, but that still doesn't mean I want to drive in it. ;)

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9905)

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31-01-2018, 13:17

You'd want to ride her, instead. Hannibal

Por JohnHassink

Ambassador (5591)

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31-01-2018, 13:50

Nah, too plastic. Contrary to OPL, I actually find her to be a bit too synthetic.

Por TomH

Champion (327)

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31-01-2018, 16:16

Bawdiness aside, Bob Yannes, designer of the SID and its spiritual semi-successor, the Ensoniq, was under no illusions:

Quote:

I did design the SID chip with enough resolution to produce high-quality music. I was never able to refine the Signal-to-noise ratio to the level I wanted, though.

Quote:

The issue wasn't budget, it was development time and chip size constraints. The design/prototype/debug/production schedule of the SID chip, VIC II chip and Commodore 64 were incredibly tight ... If I had had more time, I would have developed a proper MOS op-amp, which would have eliminated the signal leakage which occurred when the volume of the voice was supposed to be zero. This led to poor signal-to-noise ratio, although it could be dealt with by stopping the oscillator. It would also have greatly improved the filter, particularly in achieving high resonance.

Por hamlet

Scribe (3735)

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31-01-2018, 17:14

@the immortal JohnHassink
Even hardest men couldn´t resist such a pimped car: Big smile

Por JohnHassink

Ambassador (5591)

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31-01-2018, 18:36

@ hamlet: Well ofcourse, that makes a world of difference! LOL!

@ TomH: Would he have had the change to do that, it must had made the sound (objectively) more 'pleasant', but it might have also cost it a part of the unique charm it seems to have to people.

Por PingPong

Prophet (3793)

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31-01-2018, 18:42

Grauw wrote:

And a filter.

Another feature that is relatively important.

Grauw wrote:

I don’t think calling the SID an advanced PSG is entirely fair, it’s essentially a subtractive synthesizer (which is the most dominant type of synthesizer nowadays), in a home computer.

Maybe, but in the old 80 days there were no synth that used the SID, but a lot used Yamaha OPx chips.
Should mean something i think.
In game music evolved from PSG SID in wavetable or PCM or FM support as is demostrated by the various OPx chips employeed in later consoles or computer (16 bit)

Quote:

(Although, one could argue with the right tools and moderate CPU support, the SCC can do all three types of synthesis, so it is really superior to all… Wink)

I think no. SCC has to much limited wave support even i must agree that is a really interesting chip.

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