MSXDev'07 specs - discussion

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By Huey

Prophet (2642)

Huey's picture

27-09-2006, 14:44

AND the MSXdev site is more accessible for non-MSX retro developers. Same reason look around in nesdev.parodius.com for ideas.
Next step would be to let this site "ventilate" activities to other (non MSX) retro sites.

MSX really needs to become RETRO big time.

@Wolf: You already know of our project. But we didn't registrate because we did know if we could pull it off in time (and we don't). But yeah you got a point. Eek!

@pitpan: Yes it should be MSX1 ROM GAME development only. I will check MSX workshop. Problem is that it can hardly succeed if it's a one-man efford.

Uh oh. Guess I am offtopic AGAINCrying

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

27-09-2006, 14:58

Huey - My post was not intended as an 'MRC should do it all', but I interpreted your post as a 'without the MSXdev site, there is no place to put your games on display'. I think the MRC is a great place to put software on display as well, and the amount of downloads from our downloads corner confirms exactly that. So if you create an MSX game that doesn't fit in the MSXdev specs of the year, you might consider distributing it @ MRC. Wink

By Huey

Prophet (2642)

Huey's picture

27-09-2006, 15:07

Huey - My post was not intended as an 'MRC should do it all', but I interpreted your post as a 'without the MSXdev site, there is no place to put your games on display'.

Smile No I didn't interpreted it like that. In contrary I DO think MRC should do it all. Such a site will not survive without a connection to MRC. The site should be entirely conected to the Development forum of MRC (IMHO).

By jltursan

Prophet (2122)

jltursan's picture

27-09-2006, 15:13

Hard to explain, let's see first:

1) I'm with Viejo, point by point. Absolutely.
2) I'm with Mars2k. MSX2 (and devoted developers) don't deserve this.

..and now the tricky part:

3) We need a MSXdev with mixed entries; but.......comparations between 8-16K vs. MegaROMS (both MSX1) is hard; so in the worst case, comparing the first against a MSX2 MegaROM could be even stupid, it's a true abstraction exercise for the jury. Of course I'm not talking of MegaROMs with 8Kb of source+gfx and 120Kb of shitty samples. So....

4) We need two diferent contests, MSX1 and MSX2; but....are there enough active developers to fill the public expectatives?, I'm afraid not right now. Experienced developers just prolly migrate from the MSX1 and enter the MSX2 contest, maybe a new batch of novel programmers could appear and give a new blood to the MSX1 development, I don't now...so,....

5) For me the way to go is open both contests preinscription in january (announcing the prizes), wait three months and if the number of projects is enough to keep alive the contest, open it officially. If there're not enough projects, bad luck, there's no MSXxDev this year and as a developer you must to wait till the next year. Of course, once open you can add your project, say, till December. Ideas are welcome.

6) It's a must to emphasize that IT'S NOT NECESSARY to present a MSX2-MegaROM-assembly programmed game, you can go with a 16Kb BASIC game, just with some nice tunes and pretty simple graphics the trick could be done.

By AuroraMSX

Paragon (1900)

AuroraMSX's picture

27-09-2006, 16:01

I wonder why there are the so-called secret projects. To avoid the shame and embarrasment of having to cancel an entry on the last minute Tongue

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1372)

viejo_archivero's picture

27-09-2006, 16:50

hey jltursan, always helping with clever comments! Wink, btw, are you making any of those 'secret' entries or what? Wink

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6084)

ARTRAG's picture

27-09-2006, 17:14

Just an idea, to play havoc in the discussion:
a sub competition for the best SymbOS CPC/MSX game....

kidding again

Tongue

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

27-09-2006, 17:24

the way to go is open both contests preinscription in january (announcing the prizes)

Prizes? For me the real prize is to have new MSX games. The best prize is to know that people enjoy playing a game I've created.

Greets
--
SapphiRe

By sjoerd

Hero (593)

sjoerd's picture

27-09-2006, 17:28

I think the amount of RAM has more to do with how easy or difficult it is to make a game, more RAM won't make games too ambitious or too big. So the RAM limit should be 64KB. It's difficult enough to make a good game. Most msxes in use have plenty of RAM anyway. Tongue
The MSX1 standard should have been 64K from the start, just like that the memory should have been always in the same place. Smile

The ROM size limit however does influence how big games will be. I don't think there will be a lot of cancellations just because the ideas are too ambitious. Even with a 48KB ROM limit we would have tried to make a 'bigger' game than The Cure.
There might be some people who think that they can't compete with those MegaROMs. I mean, I can make a great space invaders in 16K, but will it stand a chance against Universe Unknown or even Nemesis? Tongue

So, two competitions might be a good idea. A 32K ROM/64K RAM, and a 64M ROM/64K RAM one Smile
I'm not convinced a MSX2 (or even higher) competition is a good idea. But I think a bonuspoint system for use of extras like MSXDev'06 has is a bad idea. Tongue

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6084)

ARTRAG's picture

27-09-2006, 18:02

Some statistics to think about

msxdev 2004 8K rom limit -> 16 games relesed
msxdev 2005 48K rom limit -> 21 games relesed
msxdev 2006 128K rom limit -> 7 games relesed (maybe)

It seems that the # of released games saturates with the 48K limit....
So this seems the best size in order to maximize the # of final projects.

If the difficulty to finish a project decreases with the size of the available
ram, 48Krom and more that 16Kram should be the best combination to
get the max number of games

(I say that against my own interest, I need a lot of space in ROM)

Now the right question:

What do we want to maximize, the numer of released games ? (If yes, let's go with 48Krom+64KRAM)
or we look for mega-games, like the ones that probablly we will see in 2006 ? (If yes, we go for MSX2 +128KRAM+512KROM)

In the latter case we will see very few entries, 1 or 2, and the risk to get with noting, due to lack of motivation, is very high.

BTW, if sameone can accept the challenge, why not to try a "freestyle" subcompetition ?
(with clear max specs, of course)

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