spritesort reduces spriteflicker

Page 13/13
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |

By hap

Paragon (2021)

hap's picture

22-08-2011, 14:18

excusez-moi, but
what's a BOB?

By Huey

Prophet (2644)

Huey's picture

22-08-2011, 14:29

A Bob (contraction of Blitter object) was a graphical element (GEL) first used by the Amiga computer. Bobs were hardware sprite-like objects, movable on the screen with the help of the blitter coprocessor.

By yzi

Champion (441)

yzi's picture

22-08-2011, 15:51

Excuse my ignorance, but does "cpu bobs + 60fps blitter scroller in parallel" mean that the CPU would OUT stuff to VRAM at the same time as the VDP is copying stuff from VRAM to VRAM?

By PingPong

Prophet (3459)

PingPong's picture

22-08-2011, 20:32


i do not agree with you.
see msx2 games and tell me what of this does not flicker because of the scanline limit.

All the games which do not exist, because the engine could not go beyond the 32 limit Tongue

I interpret the disagreement as a desire for certain game genres. I am reminded of Rastan and the BOB Fighting game, "people walking in the same scanline" games.

you've misunderstood. Claryfying:
"see msx2 games and tell me what of this does not flicker because of the scanline limit."
i mean that ALL msx2 games have flickering sprites, and this is NOT because they need more than 32 sprites/screen but INSTEAD because they need more than 8 sprites/scanline!

Tongue

so the scanline limit is more severe than the on screen limit that IMHO could be surpassed with two logical SATs.
but games designers have not tryed to do this, discouraged of the scanline limitations and workarounds.

By PingPong

Prophet (3459)

PingPong's picture

22-08-2011, 20:33

Excuse my ignorance, but does "cpu bobs + 60fps blitter scroller in parallel" mean that the CPU would OUT stuff to VRAM at the same time as the VDP is copying stuff from VRAM to VRAM?
the cpu can write in parallel while vdp is executing a copy command.
they are separate "worlds", so no slowdowns or corruptions

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

23-08-2011, 13:33

@PingPong

I found this argument: Take NES games that got more than 16 sprites.
Doing that on MSX2 with everything as 4 color sprites, you hit 33rd.

Aleste does flicker without a 9th cause, but maybe that is the vertical roll register?
Then vertical scrollers are unsuited for analysis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETq_L9vTGHo

I don't know games to show, I end up with a surprise request :) show videos with 9th flicker.

By PingPong

Prophet (3459)

PingPong's picture

23-08-2011, 20:02

@PingPong
Aleste does flicker without a 9th cause, but maybe that is the vertical roll register?

Umh, maybe it's for two multiplexed sat's. I think you found the only msx2 game that needed 32 sprites.
I'm not sure, maybe there is another: undeadline..... the latter get horribly slow when there is a lot of action on screen, because it probably rotate sat entries, that on msx2 is almost an always lossy tecnique.

1) NES had greater some kind of greater flexibility in sprites. they traded horizontal width for color. In most scenario, (when a bullet is 8x8 pixel) one can have multicolor. on msx2 you need two sprites. so more likely to flicker.
2) Take a look to popeye: brutus head is 8x8 pixel. 1 sprite involved, but multicolor. On msx2 you need two sprites.
msx2 is advantaged if one can trade multicolor for width. but i think is a minority of situation.

By DanySoft

Champion (433)

DanySoft's picture

28-10-2011, 22:28

Well, there is to be programmed in BASIC game Ghost'n Goblins?
There are alternative solutions to solve the problem ...
According to the graphics and quality compared to the MSX Goonies game was a great idea. But there are several problems in BASIC because of slow .... but not the CALL function TURBO ON / OFF?
But on the screen 5, 8x8 32x24 I can not put in before and after the TURBO ON is still lagging behind the speed ....
But to create on screen 2 (or 4 in the MSX2 Screen) you can do ... Wink

By DanySoft

Champion (433)

DanySoft's picture

28-10-2011, 22:36

And then I had to use three methods to use the editor to create a BASIC game called ghost'n goblins:
1. Make a table full of levels and stages ...
2. Make the sprites (all sprites!) And place them all in place at every level of the game ..
3. Make the control of the joystick / keyboard so fast (all three will be transferred in binary on DEFUSR / USR.
NestorBASIC [module with an alternative way (function reference 59) ...
In this case you can go faster than expected. See?Big smile
Bye Bye

Page 13/13
6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |