2 questions about Nestor Basic

By AxelStone

Prophet (3189)

AxelStone's picture

14-01-2015, 11:15

I have not even started using it and I have 2 questions, but I would like to resolve before knowing if I'm on the right track. Basically I want to use NestorBasic to make games because it is like a Turbo Basic with what it lacks (copy RAM to VRAM among other things). But they have told me they have 2 important limitations:

1. The maximum block size is very small turbo. Is it really smaller than permitted in Turbo Basic?
2. It works with segments of 16Kb, is a real limitation? How does it affect?

My doubts arise because of the following: Recently I started with Basic / Turbo Basic, I'm pretty busy with the subject and have seen NestorBasic may be the next logical step, but has limitations that I find in Turbo Basic chances are not the jump.

Thanks lads!

Login or register to post comments

By Imanok

Paragon (1198)

Imanok's picture

14-01-2015, 13:10

Q1: According to Nestorbasic documentation, basic available memory has been reduced just 500 bytes to fit an ASM routine, so the permitted turbo-block size must be very similar. All my games using Kun Basic worked perfectly when I switched to Nestorbasic. I think “Bubble Rain” and “Cat’n’Mouse” where made with directly with Nestorbasic, if you want to have a look.
 
Q2: That’s not a limitation but a great feature. That means that you can use all available mapped ram (in blocks of 16Kb) to store whatever you want.
 
Don’t doubt it and use Nestorbasic. It offers you a lot of new useful stuff.

By AxelStone

Prophet (3189)

AxelStone's picture

14-01-2015, 13:44

Thanks for the info, as I supossed Nestor Basic improves then Turbo Basic.

By Manuel

Ascended (19273)

Manuel's picture

14-01-2015, 13:48

You might want to read this old article from the author: http://msxcomputermagazine.nl/mccw/93/nestor/en.html

By AxelStone

Prophet (3189)

AxelStone's picture

14-01-2015, 14:00

Very useful, thanks. I hope to open soon someting like "Nestor Basic development: oficial thread", if not exists already Wink

By AxelStone

Prophet (3189)

AxelStone's picture

20-01-2015, 08:53

Another question: I've seen that NBASIC.bin has 51Kb of size. This is the amount of space used by Nestor? This is, if it requires 128Kb but takes 51Kb I only have 128-51Kb of real memory usage? Could it be?

P.D.: well it's not real at all since it includes Turbo Basic, so 16Kb of it's 51Kb are filled with turbo basic.

By ericb59

Paragon (1098)

ericb59's picture

20-01-2015, 11:13

My own experience with Nestor Basic :
You can use the 23KB of the Basic Memory to store BAsic Code.
But a Turbo-block must never be more than 10KB of Basic code, or you will have a Out of Memory.
So, it's not possible to code a big 20KB program and launch it in TurboMode.

Also you have to take into account that a Turbo-block need time to be compiled.
A 10KB Code may take more than 2 seconds to be compiled and run. (On a MSX2)

So there are some adjustments to do if you want something fast enough.

For some routines the time you lost in compilation, is not gain by the execution speed.

But, Nestor Basic implement other great functions, like the possibility to use the entire MSX memory to store Data and manipulate them.

By AxelStone

Prophet (3189)

AxelStone's picture

20-01-2015, 18:57

ericb59 wrote:

My own experience with Nestor Basic :
You can use the 23KB of the Basic Memory to store BAsic Code.
But a Turbo-block must never be more than 10KB of Basic code, or you will have a Out of Memory.
So, it's not possible to code a big 20KB program and launch it in TurboMode.

Also you have to take into account that a Turbo-block need time to be compiled.
A 10KB Code may take more than 2 seconds to be compiled and run. (On a MSX2)

So there are some adjustments to do if you want something fast enough.

For some routines the time you lost in compilation, is not gain by the execution speed.

But, Nestor Basic implement other great functions, like the possibility to use the entire MSX memory to store Data and manipulate them.

In a standar 128Kb MSX2 (8 pages), what pages are available to store data? This is, pages not occupied by BIOS, Nestor itself or Basic.

Thanks.

By ericb59

Paragon (1098)

ericb59's picture

20-01-2015, 19:07

@axelstone pages 6 and 7 are free
also you can store date in page 5, if you don't use the Moonblaster replayer.
There are some free space also in page 4

By AxelStone

Prophet (3189)

AxelStone's picture

25-01-2015, 11:50

ericb59 wrote:

@axelstone pages 6 and 7 are free
also you can store date in page 5, if you don't use the Moonblaster replayer.
There are some free space also in page 4

Thanks Eric, this means that if you use Nestor full features, pages 0-5 are fully occupied, is that? So you have 2 last pages of the 128Kb to free store data without any damage. Is that?