Creating pixel art

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By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2998)

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24-01-2018, 23:05

BTW, I would like to suggest to the MRC admins to create the "Music" and "Graphics" categories in the forums. It will be useful for threads like this one.

Right now, they end up in some clumsy places, like the "General Discussion", "Development" or "Emulation".

By Grauw

Enlighted (8015)

Grauw's picture

24-01-2018, 23:20

Agree that I miss these sometimes.

By syn

Paragon (1910)

syn's picture

24-01-2018, 23:34

imho only create a subboard if there is actually a demand for it (aka many new threads per month or so). This is speaking from experience (20+ years on forums, having been moderator on various boards and setting up my own). One or 2 per month, well better put them in the general boards.

I haven't counted the amount of grapics/musical threads but that is up to the MRC admins to decide I guess.

By FiXato

Scribe (1513)

FiXato's picture

25-01-2018, 07:43

If there's not enough for separate Music and Graphics boards, maybe a Media board instead could be a decent intermediate solution. I do agree with syn though; too many boards with low activity tend to hurt things more, as it can quickly lead to the feeling of a forum being akin to a ghost town, though this mostly just affects starting forums.

Personally I don't feel that Development is a clumsy place for discussing music and graphics though, at least when it concerns topics that pertain to discussing drawing/composing techniques or other development-related aspects of it, especially when it might be relevant to technical limitations of our systems, where coders might have relevant insights. After all, the sub-forum is called 'development', and not just 'coding'. Wink

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2998)

sd_snatcher's picture

25-01-2018, 10:04

One board for both indeed sounds like a good compromise. I would just then suggest for it to be named "Graphics and Music" since "media" is ambiguous for many non-native English speakers.

"Arts" can also be a nice name, since this can also accommodate other forms of art, like the beautiful photos posted by our friend hamlet from time to time.

By Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1761)

Jorito's picture

26-01-2018, 12:31

Good call. We did some discussing and investigating, and it seems worth doing because there's enough content. In other words: it's there, now it's up to you guys to start using it Smile

By Grauw

Enlighted (8015)

Grauw's picture

26-01-2018, 14:20

Cool, feel free to move this topic to that forum, if that’s possible… Smile

By Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1761)

Jorito's picture

26-01-2018, 14:50

Done!

By Grauw

Enlighted (8015)

Grauw's picture

27-01-2018, 01:48

Thanks! I hope this new forum will help a little to make the topic of graphics be discussed a little more frequently, now that it has a bit more of a focal place.

However I notice one thing; threads posted in this new subforum don’t show up in the “latest forum posts” on the frontpage! That’s kind of a problem, since that’s where I’m always looking for what’s been posted. Probably the latest-posts box has the subforums that it includes hardcoded, and the new subforum-id needs to be added to that list?

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2998)

sd_snatcher's picture

27-01-2018, 14:43

Grauw wrote:

According to openMSX the 5-bit colour values are 0, 11, 21, 30, 39, 48, 57, 65, 74, 82, 91, 99, 107, 115, 123, 131, 139, 147, 155, 163, 171, 178, 186, 194, 202, 209, 217, 224, 232, 239, 247, 255. These are perfectly linear if you take into account the openMSX gamma correction setting of 1.1 and some loss of precision due to an 8-bit colour buffer. Nice!

But I previously mentioned the 3-bit colour values were 0, 39, 82, 115, 155, 186, 224, 255. Not linear. Notable here is that these are a subset of the 5-bit values; if the palette was truly 3-bit, this shouldn’t be the case, [0..7]/7 is not a subset of [0..31]/31. Turns out that those are actually the colour values for the V9958, where the DAC is 5-bit, and the 3-bit values are mapped to 5-bit as 0, 4, 9, 13, 18, 22, 27, 31.

This means that the V9938, which has a 3-bit DAC, actually outputs slightly different colours than the V9958 does! I just checked, and indeed, openMSX tells me: 0, 43, 81, 118, 153, 187, 221, 255. Perfectly linear, with some gamma correction.

This is very good to know. I’m glad I found that out, I was already puzzled by the nonlinearity of the values I saw before. I guess I should tweak the colour values in my graphics intended for MSX2 now.

And lastly, for completeness’ sake, screen 8’s 2-bit blue values map to 3-bit indices 0, 2, 4, 7.

So, new summary of VDP colour component values (gamma corrected by 1.1):

V9938 2-bit: 0, 82, 153, 255
V9958 2-bit: 0, 83, 156, 255
V9938 3-bit: 0, 43, 82, 118, 153, 188, 222, 255
V9958 3-bit: 0, 40, 83, 116, 156, 187, 225, 255
V9958 5-bit: 0, 11, 21, 31, 40, 49, 57, 66, 74, 83, 91, 99, 108, 116, 124, 132, 140, 148, 156, 163, 171, 179, 187, 194, 202, 210, 217, 225, 232, 240, 248, 255
V9990 5-bit: Same as V9958.

But where did the openMSX values come from? Are there any references?

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