Creating pixel art

Page 16/21
9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (4903)

NYYRIKKI's picture

19-03-2018, 10:28

Yes, AGE5 is the tool for screen 5. I've heard that AGE7 for screen 7 also exists, but I've not seen it. For screen 8 I like Philips Video Graphics. Graph Saurus was used by many, but I didn't like it because it felt a bit slow... Same problem even more with Paint IV... Many functions, but some bugs and horribly slow to use. Screen 12? Don't even bother to try.

By Grauw

Enlighted (7010)

Grauw's picture

19-03-2018, 11:47

As for screen 11 / 12, actually I would like to hear some feedback on how to deal with that, if anyone’s ever done that.

Is there a workable workflow for pixeling in those modes explicitly? Or is the only option to design in full-colour and then automatically converting, taking care the colours in 4 pixel-wide blocks are similar and manually retouching where needed?

Ideally I’d prefer not to rely on automatic conversion, preferably the source image should match the output and could be pixeled directly with the screen 11 / 12 attribute clash restrictions...

By DarkSchneider

Hero (596)

DarkSchneider's picture

19-03-2018, 13:09

I think SC12 was specifically designed for that, image scanning. You could always use any PC program without limitations (Blender, hand drawing + scanner...), and then convert. I think the SC12 is for that as said.

By Grauw

Enlighted (7010)

Grauw's picture

19-03-2018, 19:22

Screen 11 would be nice though. Graphics like Suikoden II would be possible on MSX2+ I think. But the workflow to draw those graphics…

By Manuel

Ascended (14122)

Manuel's picture

19-03-2018, 19:41

Note that Graph Saurus II supports 4 graphic modes (sc5, 7, 8, 12).

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (4903)

NYYRIKKI's picture

19-03-2018, 21:18

Grauw wrote:

As for screen 11 / 12, actually I would like to hear some feedback on how to deal with that, if anyone’s ever done that.

I've newer seen a working solution for editing... Generally SC12 is not very good for drawing due to colorspill. The sharp edges look bad pretty much no matter what you do... With some luck they may look ok if one side of edge is very dark or very light. Maybe idea where user draws the picture first in grayscale and then applies colors with some shadebob type of aquarelle paint brush could work somehow...

Practically best way today is anyway edit the picture with PC-tools and then find a best suitable algorithm & parameters to convert it. This causes similar compromise all over the picture that might not be such bad as it sounds like. I think our eyes tend to like that in general.

The only way I've used to deal with SC11 is that I've wrote a program that combines SC5 and SC12 picture in to one in "COPY,TPSET"-style... I've used such result in few demos like COW or "Tein minä sitten demon BASIC:llä"

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (4903)

NYYRIKKI's picture

19-03-2018, 22:08

Grauw wrote:

Screen 11 would be nice though. Graphics like Suikoden II would be possible on MSX2+ I think. But the workflow to draw those graphics…

I would take approach something like this:
- Make a tile with your favourite graphics tools.
- Resize or resample it to 16x16 ...or what ever you use. Naturally X must by multiple of 4. (Using bigger source picture and resampling it down may give a nice, but a bit soft look)
- Convert it to SC11 with BMP2MSX (Use no scaling)
- Experiment with conversion parameters
- If still not good, experiment with Gamma & contrast and repeat previous step.
- When the tile looks good, use BASIC COPY-command to add it to your custom tileset.
- Draw software sprites with AGE5

By msd

Paragon (1336)

msd's picture

19-03-2018, 22:48

Did you ever try screen 11 designer by fuc, They used it for m-kid.

By Grauw

Enlighted (7010)

Grauw's picture

19-03-2018, 23:52

NYYRIKKI wrote:

I've newer seen a working solution for editing... Generally SC12 is not very good for drawing due to colorspill. The sharp edges look bad pretty much no matter what you do...

But that’s why it actually seems very suitable for pixeling, screen 11 especially, very similar to the colour spill in screen 2 or 4… You can manually take care of the pixel alignment so that similar colours are in 4-pixel groups, e.g. a 4-pixel wooden edge around 8 pixels of stone. And when there is an area where you need different colours, try to find good J / K compromise values for it and tweak the surrounding pixels to match, or use one of screen 11’s palette colours to patch it up.

Just, if I could think of a good way to actually do that… Preferably in my usual editor.

NYYRIKKI wrote:

Practically best way today is anyway edit the picture with PC-tools and then find a best suitable algorithm & parameters to convert it. This causes similar compromise all over the picture that might not be such bad as it sounds like. I think our eyes tend to like that in general.

After thinking about this a bit… I think this might be a good approach, slightly different from yours:

  1. Draw a couple of tiles with your favourite graphics tools (256x256 24 bpp). Make them with the 4-pixel attribute clash in mind, using gradients of similar colours where possible. But also have a few places where you break the restriction to challenge the conversion and touchup later.
  2. Convert to screen 11 or 12 with a script or BMP2MSX or similar and see how it turns out.
  3. Touch it up it in an editor which allows you to tweak the Y, J and K values, like GraphSaurus or FUC’s editor msd mentioned, or a PC tool if anyone ever makes one. In this step you learn which colour ramps work for your graphics. Also you can define some palette colours.
  4. Convert it back to 24 bpp PNG, now with 16-colour palette included in the PNG.
  5. Draw more tiles, with the help of the colour picker and new knowledge of the ramps that you use. If you want to add tiles which don’t use the ramps you used before, just draw them in full-colour and repeat from step 2 for the new tiles.
  6. Use a scratch area to put the colour ramps that you use, for easy use with a colour picker.

I think in this way you may be able to pixel pretty freely, and gradually learn what the best colour ramps are for your image or in general, and how to patch them up by either compromising a bit or using cleverly picked palette colours. Getting better over time with practice.

By Rydeen

Supporter (5)

Rydeen's picture

20-03-2018, 03:49

Grauw wrote:

T&E's DD-Graph AGE5 is the best imo, many people also like Bit2's Graph Saurus.

Funny that these were both game companies :D.

ro wrote:

Ditto on AGE5, it's a heck of a tool. simple, elegant and fast. get's the job done.

Thanks, I'll definitely check it out, I love doing digital art within the parameters and limitations of old hardware.

Page 16/21
9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21
My MSX profile