Creating pixel art

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By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5271)

NYYRIKKI's picture

20-03-2018, 07:49

@Grauw If you really want to do real pixeling on SC11/SC12 then test if some of the existing editing tools work for you... Few have been mentioned, but list is missing at least:
- Columbus (a real drawing program, but slow... Not that much pixeling oriented IIRC)
- Doozle (Nothing but pixeling)
- Mouse master (I've not tested)

By Grauw

Enlighted (8029)

Grauw's picture

20-03-2018, 08:15

Once I did try Graph Saurus in screen mode 12, but there it felt more like a tweaking/retouching tool than something I could draw with. Those others are worth a try, nice suggestions.

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (792)

DarkSchneider's picture

20-03-2018, 09:02

I think you could use SC8, I see it more indicated for gaming type data processing. You have 256 colors plus the 16 colors palette for sprites. The weird color system with YJK and YAE seems more indicated for image processing.

In fact, looking at the color resolution 64 x 212 seems not good for gamimg style, I see them completely for images. You are limiting your graphics design from start, no good.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9747)

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20-03-2018, 10:18

I'd personally skip any 1-byte-per-pixel screenmode, unless we're talking G9k. On MSX2(+), such modes cost twice as much memory and CPU-time compared to standard SC5.

By msd

Paragon (1372)

msd's picture

20-03-2018, 10:45

Fuc did quite a nice job with mkid in screen 11. Mkid msx2+

By Grauw

Enlighted (8029)

Grauw's picture

20-03-2018, 11:18

In 8 bpp modes, I think scrolling 2 px @ 60 fps on V9958 takes about 30% frame time, scrolling diagonally 60%. This is bound by the VDP, assuming it’s executing eight 4x16 copies for each 2-pixel step. Numbers based on these tests. Available VRAM is the bigger concern I think...

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (792)

DarkSchneider's picture

20-03-2018, 11:29

Yes, the VRAM is IMO the main problem. You only have 1 page to store all the graphics, limiting the design.

That Mkid looks interesting, but we can see the cost for SC11. For each tile, all the tile has similar colors, and those combined, like trees with sky, we see artifacts.
IMO SC8 using wisely its colors can get the best results for in-game graphics. You have 256 own colors for tiles, plus the 16 colors palette entirely for sprites, not shared with tiles.

By msd

Paragon (1372)

msd's picture

20-03-2018, 12:58

Quote:

Available VRAM is the bigger concern I think...

. Finnaly make use of the extra 64KB vram Wink

By Grauw

Enlighted (8029)

Grauw's picture

20-03-2018, 13:15

DarkSchneider wrote:

That Mkid looks interesting, but we can see the cost for SC11. For each tile, all the tile has similar colors, and those combined, like trees with sky, we see artifacts.

I want to prove you wrong, or otherwise said, challenge myself, but not now, since I got more important things to focus on first Smile.

Also, take a look at these screen 12 tile graphics. Looks pretty sweet! Also note that around the rocks (hard edge from gray to brown), colour spill is not an issue. So not everything needs to look square and same-ish if you pick the right colour ramps. And this looks like an automated conversion, I think with manual tweaking to avoid colour spill, using techniques similar to you would in screen 4, and using screen 11’s palette to help, you can get pretty nice results.

DarkSchneider wrote:

IMO SC8 using wisely its colors can get the best results for in-game graphics. You have 256 own colors for tiles, plus the 16 colors palette entirely for sprites, not shared with tiles.

Actually no, the sprite colours in screen 8 are not from the palette :(, but from an ugly fixed set of colours (uncomprehensible choice). Which pretty much disqualifies sprites for me in screen 8, and makes screen 8 a lot less attractive for games.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9747)

wolf_'s picture

20-03-2018, 13:19

The extra 8BPP CPU-time, admittedly, only is relevant if you plan to update the screencontents (soft-sprites, multilayers like in Fantasm Soldier II). When you're only scrolling and re-building the edges of the screen, this is less of an issue.

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