Adding a Kanji ROM

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By Manuel

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19-11-2016, 18:11

mars2000: although it's a nice idea to categorize these commands like that, I do find it confusing, as these terms are invented by you and not official. (E.g. Disk Basic is an official term). This makes the terms very misleading: if it's in the Wiki, it is quickly assumed that these terms are official but you won't be able to find anything about them anywhere. So I suggest to use only official terms like that or at least make it clear that these terms are not official.

There's a difference between BASIC extensions and standard BASIC commands despite that some standard commands do not work (or are not useful) if some optional hardware is not present.
Extensions are usually only implemented with CALL statements. If not, they're simply standard. Does that hold? Hmm, that does make the ramdisk an extension Smile But that RAMdisk works always, in any MSX-BASIC version 2 or higher, so it should be considered very standard. Maybe they kept it as a CALL command because it was indeed optional in some MSX1 machines?

By mars2000you

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19-11-2016, 19:10

You've forgotten 2 things :
* Disk BASIC is an extension of the MSX-BASIC and most of its instructions don't begin with CALL
* the new standard instructions in BASIC 3.0 and 4.0 begin with CALL

So, it's not so simple to say that extended BASIC is with CALL.

Anyway, I'll correct for the RAMDisk BASIC in stead of the MemoryDisk BASIC. As I have the French Philips manual, I had no any idea of the official term in English.

Excerpt in French of the Philips manual for CALL MEMINI :

"Réserve une partie de la mémoire pour l'utilisation du disque mémoire."

So, MemoryDisk BASIC was logical when reading this official text from Philips.

By Manuel

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20-11-2016, 00:45

My point is that no document at all ever mentions "MemoryDisk BASIC". Nor "Kanji Basic version 1" (or 2 for that matter). You invented these terms. That's all very nice, but not helpful for a Wiki.

By gdx

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20-11-2016, 11:05

Manual, the extended Basic have not really been standardized instructions.

I think Mars2000you have right to differentiate the "Memory Disk" from the "RAM disk" appeared with the DOS.

I have nevertheless simplified the explanations.

https://www.msx.org/wiki/Category:MemoryDisk_BASIC#Instructions

By NYYRIKKI

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20-11-2016, 11:33

I agree here with Manuel. PUT KANJI is standard MSX2 BASIC command. Same goes for COPY SCREEN etc. Although ie. COPY SCREEN is not useful unless you have the video hardware, lack of video hardware does not make the program to fail -> Definitely part of standard MSX-BASIC 2.0 We can not say some command is not part of MSX-BASIC just because it is not useful... If this would be the case then we could argue about WAIT-command just as well.

mars2000you wrote:

* Disk BASIC is an extension of the MSX-BASIC and most of its instructions don't begin with CALL

We can argue about this as well... If we think ie. about FILES-command, it is not Disk BASIC command, but MSX-BASIC command. You will notice it if you try it on a computer that has no Disk BASIC... If it would be Disk BASIC extension you should get "Syntax error", but this is not the case. To make my point better, maybe it would be better to think ie. about IPL or CMD commands as they are not part of DIsk BASIC either. They are all part of MSX-BASIC.

By gdx

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20-11-2016, 13:38

In Basic, it's not commands but instructions. It is a mix of commands, functions, inctructions, etc but in general we say inctruction.

IPL or CMD are similar to CALL. I think we can put them in the same set.

By NYYRIKKI

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20-11-2016, 16:55

Ok, I agree that saying that ie. FILES is not a Disk-BASIC command is clearly a bad idea. It is just not "BASIC extension" as it is build in command from the start. COPY-command is even better example. It is supported by MSX-BASIC 2.0 but Disk-BASIC also handles it. Considering the original question by Manuel, I have no problem to call these commands "standard commands" instead of "extended commands". It is a really small difference between "extended command" and "extended functionality". (Feel free to replace "command" by "instruction" if you like)

gdx wrote:

IPL or CMD are similar to CALL. I think we can put them in the same set.

No they are not. CALL is a totally different beast that checks out all slots for extended commands. IPL and CMD work exactly like FILES. Only difference is that in case Disk-BASIC is present the FILES hook is populated and the IPL & CMD hooks are not. They all should be put to category "partially handled reserved words for future expansions" together with ATTR$, LOC, LOF, EOF, FPOS etc. If we want to look the situation from user perspective instead of programmers perspective then we can call them "unused Disk-BASIC commands"

By mars2000you

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20-11-2016, 19:49

gdx wrote:

Manual, the extended Basic have not really been standardized instructions.

I think Mars2000you have right to differentiate the "Memory Disk" from the "RAM disk" appeared with the DOS.

I have nevertheless simplified the explanations.

https://www.msx.org/wiki/Category:MemoryDisk_BASIC#Instructions

+1 :)

Very good point - MemoryDisk makes indeed the difference with the RAM-Disk created by DOS2 and version 2 of Disk BASIC.

By Manuel

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20-11-2016, 21:30

My point is not the name MemoryDisk vs. RAMdisk. My point is to call it 'MemoryDisk Basic", which is a new term and not official. But my real point was the fact that the Wiki page contains terms like "Kanji BASIC version 1" and "Kanji BASIC version 2". The first one is just MSX-BASIC version 2. There is no such versioning for Kanji BASIC so this is also a new and unofficial term, and thus confusing.

By mars2000you

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20-11-2016, 23:21

Manuel wrote:

But my real point was the fact that the Wiki page contains terms like "Kanji BASIC version 1" and "Kanji BASIC version 2". The first one is just MSX-BASIC version 2. There is no such versioning for Kanji BASIC so this is also a new and unofficial term, and thus confusing.

Problem fixed : https://www.msx.org/wiki/Category:Kanji_BASIC#Instructions

(PUT KANJI can be seen as a related Kanji BASIC instruction while being also listed in the standard MSX-BASIC instructions)

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