Use msx floppies on PC

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By gdx

Prophet (3749)

gdx's picture

16-10-2020, 16:55

msx4ever wrote:

Many dsk files do not work on a real MSX

Usually this is because of poor slot management.
POKE-1,(15-PEEK(-1)\16)*17 instead of POKE-1,255 or POKE-1,170, etc can make it work many DSK provided that the Main-RAM is not splitted into different slots.
This issue occurs also on emulator or OCM.

msx4ever wrote:

Many rom files can't work on a real MSX

All cartridge ROMs work on the majority of MSXs.
The ROMs that do not work on real MSX are few rare homebrews because access to the VDP is too fast. These ROMs run on emulators or OCMs because the timing is poorly emulated.

Other ROMs that don't work are nany games converted to ROMs because of poor slot management but this issue is the same on emulator or OCM.

msx4ever wrote:

If I download a dsk file that doesn't work on a MSX... I delete it...

This is a bad idea. You have to know the exact cause of the malfunction before erasing. And even, it is better to keep even the bad dumps because sometimes we can make them work with few change (by using another bad dump for example). The best is to note when it does not work and set it aside. I received several games that were rated as "Bad Dump" but were okay.

By turbor

Champion (446)

turbor's picture

16-10-2020, 21:15

msx4ever,com wrote:

Many dsk files do not work on a real MSX
These dsk files ain't MSX diskimages

There are plenty of reasons why this might fail. Cracks made for a Philips that do not work on a Sony were a common thing in the day. Trying a double side disk in a VG-8235 with a single sided drive will not work...
Try to run NOPS realmotion disks on a Turbo-R, it will not work!
Ofcourse if somebody creates a dsk file from a copy-protected disk, the copyprotection will not be correctly included in the dsk file and the software wil not work. Or worse it will give the impression of working and do some funny stuff(like XAK, if it detects an illegal copy it withholds certain items you need to advance in the game... )

msx4ever,com wrote:

Many rom files can't work on a real MSX
These ROM files ain't MSX rom files

Larger game had extra bankswitching logic in its cartridge to handle the larger roms. So if you do not correctly emulate this behavior or alter (=patch/crack) the software then this perfectly dumped roms will not run on a real MSX. If the emulator has no support for the specific logic or it guesses an incorrect mappertype then it will not work.
So possible perfect real rom files you call incorrect?

msx4ever,com wrote:

This way a MSX on PC isn't a MSX emulation, but emulations of machines that do not excist
The real MSX image is one that works on a real MSX too
If it doesn't work on a real MSX, it ain't a emulation
I try to have only REAL emulations that all work on real MSX computers

OpenMSX emulates +150 different MSX models. Which model do you exactly want to emulate?
Also if you use catapult to launch openMSX, you can easily do the same then as you do with ruMSX. Select your floppy station and then launch openMSX, it will use the dir-as-disk feature and you can read/write to your actual floppies if you want.
Or you can set up a simple bat file on your windows machine to launch MSX as you like.
Or maybe you can use the OnScreenDisplay menu of openMSX to select the drive?

msx4ever,com wrote:

If I download a dsk file that doesn't work on a MSX... I delete it... it has nothing to do with emulating MSX

I'm under the impression that you are shortsighted as to the vast amount of possible combinations of hardware there are in the MSX universe. You talk about MSX but your Youtube video's indicate that you actually talk about an unspecified MSX2 machine.

If you tell us the machine you want to emulate we can help you setup your configuration.

By turbor

Champion (446)

turbor's picture

16-10-2020, 21:38

Oh, I forgot this important point. To emulate any of the real MSX machines you will need to find the roms for the BIOS and BASIC that came with that machine. While emulation itself is perfectly legal, spreading rom files without the permission of the copyright holders isn't. Therefore openMSX doesn't come with any of those roms for all those machines.
We provide a free (and white-room) recreation of a generic MSX BIOS that's just sufficient to launch most carts. No disk-rom nor BASIC re-implementation exist yet, so a default install of openMSX has no way to launch dsk files. You'll have to search those roms yourself (hint: google is your friend Smile ).
If other emulator authors go into the legally gray zone, that's their choice.

By Thom

Hero (650)

Thom's picture

17-10-2020, 01:00

turbor wrote:

While emulation itself is perfectly legal, spreading rom files without the permission of the copyright holders isn't. Therefore openMSX doesn't come with any of those roms for all those machines.
We provide a free (and white-room) recreation of a generic MSX BIOS that's just sufficient to launch most carts. No disk-rom nor BASIC re-implementation exist yet, so a default install of openMSX has no way to launch dsk files. You'll have to search those roms yourself (hint: google is your friend Smile ).
If other emulator authors go into the legally gray zone, that's their choice.

Didn't Nishi give permission to distribute all roms (except for MSX BASIC, which is owned by Microsoft) freely:
https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/general-discussion/my-mee...
?

By gdx

Prophet (3749)

gdx's picture

18-10-2020, 14:12

In fact, it's no possible to separate the MSX-BASIC from the Bios and the firmwares are not concerned. So only the Disk-ROMs with the MSX-DOS and the Sub-ROMs are concerned.

However, it would be very surprising that a company to complain if its MSX firmware available for free download. And I don't think Microsoft would do it for MSX-Basic either.

Companies generally complain about recent or sold software (especially if they still sell them again or something similar) and especially when the company's image is used with possible ambiguity (cf. the case of Konamiman's site).

By msx4ever,com

Rookie (30)

msx4ever,com's picture

19-10-2020, 20:23

Quote:

turbor wrote :
OpenMSX emulates +150 different MSX models. Which model do you exactly want to emulate?
Also if you use catapult to launch openMSX, you can easily do the same then as you do with ruMSX. Select your floppy station and then launch openMSX, it will use the dir-as-disk feature and you can read/write to your actual floppies if you want.
Or you can set up a simple bat file on your windows machine to launch MSX as you like.
Or maybe you can use the OnScreenDisplay menu of openMSX to select the drive?

Make a video and let us see how you swich one floppy after another in the pc floppydrive, like I did with RUMSX
With RuMSX nobody has to start something else than the emulator itselve. Wenn I install openMSX and click on the icon... nothing happens. How should I select a floppydrive? I have to study before I can do that. RuMSX does not need a catapult to start anything. RuMSX does not need a bat file at all. Just start RuMSX, choose to start with the A: drive and you are ready. No programming needed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8RS7xdB7tI

By msx4ever,com

Rookie (30)

msx4ever,com's picture

19-10-2020, 21:30

Quote:

There are plenty of reasons why this might fail. Cracks made for a Philips that do not work on a Sony were a common thing in the day. Trying a double side disk in a VG-8235 with a single sided drive will not work...
Try to run NOPS realmotion disks on a Turbo-R, it will not work!
Ofcourse if somebody creates a dsk file from a copy-protected disk, the copyprotection will not be correctly included in the dsk file and the software wil not work. Or worse it will give the impression of working and do some funny stuff(like XAK, if it detects an illegal copy it withholds certain items you need to advance in the game... )

With the right menu, it doesn't matter if it is Sony or Philips. In the menu the right poke or peek is done automatically. I have a good menu on every floppy. It is stupid to try a ds flop in a ss drive. And it is stupid to try msx 2 in a msx 1 machine. There are thousands of games that work on a MSX 2 no matter wich model. MSX is a standard. If a dsk file doesn't work delete it and try one of the many alternatives that do work!

Quote:

Larger game had extra bankswitching logic in its cartridge to handle the larger roms. So if you do not correctly emulate this behavior or alter (=patch/crack) the software then this perfectly dumped roms will not run on a real MSX. If the emulator has no support for the specific logic or it guesses an incorrect mappertype then it will not work.
So possible perfect real rom files you call incorrect?

A perfectly dumped rom that does not work on a real MSX machine? It only can work on a PC and that is a MSX rom?
A perfectly dumped rom works on a real MSX!!!

Quote:

OpenMSX emulates +150 different MSX models. Which model do you exactly want to emulate?
Also if you use catapult to launch openMSX, you can easily do the same then as you do with ruMSX. Select your floppy station and then launch openMSX, it will use the dir-as-disk feature and you can read/write to your actual floppies if you want.
Or you can set up a simple bat file on your windows machine to launch MSX as you like.
Or maybe you can use the OnScreenDisplay menu of openMSX to select the drive?

MSX had only a few standards and not 150 diffent onces. It is tupid to emulate 150 different models. Emulating the few standards is enough. RuMSX is enough and does not need catapult or another program to work and bat files are not needed.

Quote:

'm under the impression that you are shortsighted as to the vast amount of possible combinations of hardware there are in the MSX universe. You talk about MSX but your Youtube video's indicate that you actually talk about an unspecified MSX2 machine.

If you tell us the machine you want to emulate we can help you setup your configuration.

I'm under the impression that you believe there are no MSX standards and every game is made in 150 different ways for 150 different MSX computers. But that is not so! A MSX 1 game works on every MSX 1 and MSX 2 computer. With the right menu and loader it uses a poke or peek to work on Sony and Philips or... There is no game that works only on a specified MSX2 machine! It works on every MSX2 machine. Maybe openMSX can't emulate a MSX2 standard and openMSX does need to know on wich MSX machine the game must work. Perhaps openMSX cannot emulate a complete standard. But that is a shortcoming of openMSX. There are not 150 different dsk files for 150 different MSX computers. For a MSX 1 game, only one dsk file ios needed for MSX 1 and MSX 2 Wenn a dsk file does not work on a real MSX, there are plenty others that will work... delete them!

Quote:

If you tell us the machine you want to emulate we can help you setup your configuration.

With RuMSX there is no difficult configuration needed. Perhaps openMSX does need that? for every type MSX a different configuration and bat file? That is the reason for standards. That is why I use RuMSX

Quote:

No disk-rom nor BASIC re-implementation exist yet, so a default install of openMSX has no way to launch dsk files. You'll have to search those roms yourself

Wenn I download a rom file or a dsk file, I can click on it and it will start with RuMSX, but with openMSX that seems to be impossible. RuMSX and blueMSX can launch dsk and rom files!!!

By msx4ever,com

Rookie (30)

msx4ever,com's picture

19-10-2020, 21:29

Today I posted video's on youtube to show how RuMSX can make a dsk file from a real MSX floppy disk.
After that how that dsk file opens in RuMSX.
Create a dsk file from a physical MSX diskette with RuMSX
On another video I format a real diskette on pc, put the contents of a dsk file on that floppy disk and start it on a 8250 MSX computer.
RuMSX does not need Disk-Manager or other software and no programming bat files.
Format a floppy disk on PC in just a few minutes with RuMSX and copy Nemesis 1 from dsk to it.
Sometimes it is handy to have empty dsk files to write to or copy files to... with RuMSX that is easy.
Creating a dsk file with an empty diskette is child's play for RuMSX.

By msx4ever,com

Rookie (30)

msx4ever,com's picture

19-10-2020, 21:28

I am waiting for a video in which with openMSX one MSX diskette after another goes into the pc drive and works.
Without another program or bat file between each flop.
Prove that this is possible, or admit that RuMSX is unique and can do what every MSX can do.
Using real MSX diskettes on a PC with RuMSX One after the other in seconds.

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