dsk to floppy copy on a PC to be used on msx

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By bakoulis

Master (166)

bakoulis's picture

30-05-2016, 18:13

Make a favor to your self and take the discs you need from here: SVI-738 discs
Is a 70 discs archive, ready and tested, especially made for svi-738 computers!
And of course, the images are 360KB, because svi-738 diskdrive have 360KB capacity.
B-)

By Manuel

Ascended (18703)

Manuel's picture

30-05-2016, 22:06

Toni Ramirez wrote:

Funny thing, because just after I wrote the post I checked the wiki and it says "DD Floppy Disk Drive", so "double density"... should mean 720 Kb?

No, double sided, double density is 720kB. Single Sided, Double Density is 360kB. Single-density is not really used on MSX.

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

31-05-2016, 10:08

SLotman wrote:

There is no need to install "old windows" on your pc. I have here an USB disk drive, and I can format 720kb disks on it with Windows 8, 64 bits with no problem.

And no need to look for command line, DOS prompts or anything - Diskmanager will work without any problems, just fine.

Just make sure to put a tape on 1.44Mb disks, so they can be formated as 720k Wink

Edit: just for the sake of it, when I want to format a disk on win8, with dos prompt I use this:
format a: /t:80 /n:9

"a:" being your disk drive letter.

Now I'm more confused. I've read lots of posts of people complaining that in order to format disks as 720k they need to do these DOS prompts and write the command, and even in this case it works or doesn't depending on the FDD itself. People even talk about specific FDD models, some of which work, others don't.

So are you saying that Diskmanager DOES format disks as 720k with any disk drive and any Windows?

And what about 360k? Because before your post someone told me my MSX1 (SVI-738) hasn't 720k support. It has DD, though, so I'd expect it reads 720k, but at this point I don't know anymore. oO

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

31-05-2016, 10:13

bakoulis wrote:

Make a favor to your self and take the discs you need from here: SVI-738 discs
Is a 70 discs archive, ready and tested, especially made for svi-738 computers!
And of course, the images are 360KB, because svi-738 diskdrive have 360KB capacity.
B-)

Thanks, but the problem is I already have a lot of games and just want to get the best of those that I don't own yet. So maybe we're talking about 20-30 games.

And above all I wouldn't be able to play them if I don't solve the FDD problem. These disk images you tell me about have to be dumped to actual disks, and as my PC doesn't have FDD and people find it hard to use less than 1.44 MB disks in current PCs... that's the real problem. Moreover, if a MSX1 needs 360k disks... I'm afraid I'll have it harder than the rest of the people.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5917)

NYYRIKKI's picture

31-05-2016, 16:08

Ok, let's talk about the hadware a bit... HD disks are indeed a bit different than DD. They need stronger magnet for writing etc, so indeed some drives may have dropped the older DD support for sake of simplycity. Although Microsoft had their hands pretty deep in FAT standard it is kind of ironic that they do not support 360KB disks. (No such probems with Linux, Amiga OS or MacOS) In physical format point of view 720KB disks and 360KB disks are identical. Only difference is that 360KB drives have read heads only on one side while 720KB drives use both upper and bottom side of the disk.

From software point of view it is not such an big issue that Windows ignores the number of heads count. You can just write first 9 logical sectors, skip next 9 logical sectors and repeat. This will effectively use only one side of the disk.

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

31-05-2016, 17:14

NYYRIKKI wrote:

Ok, let's talk about the hadware a bit... HD disks are indeed a bit different than DD. They need stronger magnet for writing etc, so indeed some drives may have dropped the older DD support for sake of simplycity. Although Microsoft had their hands pretty deep in FAT standard it is kind of ironic that they do not support 360KB disks. (No such probems with Linux, Amiga OS or MacOS) In physical format point of view 720KB disks and 360KB disks are identical. Only difference is that 360KB drives have read heads only on one side while 720KB drives use both upper and bottom side of the disk.

From software point of view it is not such an big issue that Windows ignores the number of heads count. You can just write first 9 logical sectors, skip next 9 logical sectors and repeat. This will effectively use only one side of the disk.

If it's just a matter of using Linux this I can do, and they say Disk Manager works fine too in any Windows, but in other threads people tell me that the problem will be the disk drive itself. Apparently USB ones rarely format as 360k, regardless of the software, and the old ones I remove from old PCs just have 34 pin connections that don't fit in my SATA PC, or other incompatibilities like that. Sad

By Toni Ramirez

Expert (73)

Toni Ramirez's picture

31-05-2016, 20:07

Apparently I was right and my MSX1 has a 720k drive, because this picture shows one of my first 2 disks, full of games and containing several from Konami, it says clearly "double sided" and they have always worked.

So, if my MSX1 reads 720k disks, what I need is a USB floppy disk drive that formats as 720k, and I've found some that apparently do.

By Manuel

Ascended (18703)

Manuel's picture

31-05-2016, 21:41

Double sided disks work fine on a single sided disk drive. It's just that only one half (side) is used... You'll only have 360kB free. And that could be 10-20 or so small Konami games!

By Wild_Penguin

Hero (642)

Wild_Penguin's picture

31-05-2016, 23:00

If you have a DOS disk, it should tell you the free space after 'dir' (I don't know hot to show free / total space from Basic, or if that is even possible).

By meits

Scribe (6491)

meits's picture

31-05-2016, 23:03

@Manuel: Only when formatted single sided that is Wink

@Toni: The lable says it's double sided. This only proves it's passed the test on both sides and may therefore be sold as a double sided disk. The ones that failed the test can still be reliable single sided disks. A disk sold as a double sided disk can be formatted to be single sided. If you have a single sided diskdrive in your MSX it will format everything single sided.

The best way to find out if you have a double sided diskdrive is to type call format in basic and see what questions you get. If the computer only asks you which drive (A: or BSmile you want to format and then prompt strike a key when ready, you got your answer: single sided. If you get a second question (single sided or double sided) you have a double sided disk drive. A single sided situation won't ask that second question because there's only the single sided option.

One little remark: Technically a drive can be double sided, but if the ROM inside your computer hasn't been changed, you're still single sided, eventhough the drive can work with double sided disks.

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