Dual question topic: PSG vs. FM-PAC game soundtracks

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By JohnHassink

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30-04-2012, 20:11

I sort of agree, Akiguchi. But even art can sometimes also be crude. Wink
Think I'm a-makin' a vid of my top 10 'non-Japanese' PSG tunes...

By hit9918

Prophet (2911)

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30-04-2012, 22:07

@JohnHassink,
the pulse wave is not the apreggio rattle. It is about waveform = timbre.

I got two examples where I like the chip usage:

deva, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv8nGeeEVm0 at 1:00.
First I thought I am hearing an SCC because of the rrrrrr going on.
It is uncommon for midi to have some rrrrrr. I do not mean appregio rattle.

Yie Ar Kung Fu on CPC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4auREBjSMe8 It is special:

It is like two instruments playing one melody.
Like the opposite of the PSG parody video complaining about too much doodle.
And the NES version sounds more PSG than the CPC.
It is no western melody, no western rattle, still it is more than the naked PSG tone.
And that is where the western CPC is turning PSG in the right direction.

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5591)

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01-05-2012, 00:21

hit9918 wrote:

deva, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv8nGeeEVm0 at 1:00.
First I thought I am hearing an SCC because of the rrrrrr going on.
It is uncommon for midi to have some rrrrrr. I do not mean appregio rattle.

It's actually 6 FM channels playing the same tone. :)

1 - @12, 'Electric Guitar', oct 2, vol 57
2 - @09, 'Organ', oct 3, vol 51
3 - @02, 'Violin', oct 2, vol 63
4 - @06, 'Trumpet', oct 2, vol 47, w/software modulation
5 - @63, 'MSX-PSG 1', oct 2, vol 45, w/ software modulation
6 - @63, 'MSX-PSG 1', oct 3, vol 45, w/ software modulation

The 'MSX-PSG 1' being a user voice which serves to 'fake' the PSG sound.

According to MB 1.4, that user voice is set up like this:

+----------------------+-------------+-------------+
| FUNCTIONS            | GENERATOR A | GENERATOR B |
+----------------------+-------------+-------------+
| Multi Sample Wave    | 02          | 01          |
| Key Scale Rate       | 01          | 00          |
| Vibrato              | 00          | 00          |
| Amplitude Modulation | 00          | 01          |
| Total Level          | 22          | 00          |
| Key Scale Level      | 00          | 00          |
|                      |             |             |
| Percussion           | 01          | 01          |
| Attack Rate          | 12          | 12          |
| Decay Rate           | 00          | 00          |
| Sustain Level        | 02          | 01          |
| Release Rate         | 00          | 07          |
|                      |             |             |
| Feedback             | 07          |             |
+----------------------+-------------+-------------+
hit9918 wrote:

Yie Ar Kung Fu on CPC, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4auREBjSMe8 It is special:

It is like two instruments playing one melody.

Seems as it's two channels playing the same melody, and one of them is an octave above of the other.
Not really some obscure 'secret' trick or anything. ;)

By hit9918

Prophet (2911)

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01-05-2012, 21:27

Can the midi chip do vibrato, can it maybe do it so fast that it can make waveform like envelope on PSG can be abused for waveform?

About the MSX music chip confusion, is there one name for all?
audio, music, opl, FM, are they all driven by same BIOS API?

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

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01-05-2012, 22:29

hit9918 wrote:

Can the midi chip do vibrato, can it maybe do it so fast that it can make waveform like envelope on PSG can be abused for waveform?

I guess imitating the built-in HW envelope presets of the PSG should be quite doable, software-wise.
It's more than vibrato alone. It's indeed about volume envelope. The PSG has, among others, some sawtooth and triangular waveforms aboard. There are 8 different presets in total.

Not sure how fast you can actually cycle said vibrato. It possibly depends not only on software but also on hardware (chip speed) limitations.

To avoid confusion: with "MIDI" you mean the FM-PAC, or OPL in general?
And do you mean with "vibrato" the cycle speed of the preset?

hit9918 wrote:

About the MSX music chip confusion, is there one name for all?
audio, music, opl, FM, are they all driven by same BIOS API?

MSX-Audio = Music Module = OPL1
MSX-Music = FM-PAC = OPLL ('light')

But sorry, I don't know what a "BIOS API" is. Although it sounds somewhat Dutch for "a monkey at the movie theatre". Wink

By hit9918

Prophet (2911)

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01-05-2012, 23:06

"It is using a more limited version of the MSX-Audio BIOS, patched to use the much cheaper and incompatible Yamaha YM2413"

There seem to be multiple chips, and there seems to be a BIOS for sound.

Can OPLL be made to sound like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urz3qLA2pHQ

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

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01-05-2012, 23:33

I much doubt that, as that YM2612 has no limit wrt to software voices (the YM2413 only has one, the rest have to be chosen from a fixed set of 15 hardware voices). And this chip has 4 operators per voice, in contrast with the 2-op OPLL.

This YM2612 reminds me more of a limited OPL3 than an OPL1...

Wrt to BIOS you have the OPLL family (FM Pac, MSX-MUsic and all clones like the FM Stereo Pak or the F' Shp from Zemina) that can be accessed through the "play #2" syntax in BASIC. The MSX Audio/OPL1 family consists out of the Philips Music Module, the Panasonic Fs-CA1 and the Toshiba MU900. Of those, only the Panasonic supports an MSX Audio Basic.

Of course you can find a lot of extra info in our wiki: http://www.msx.org/wiki/Category:Music_Expansions

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

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02-05-2012, 16:16

Akiguchi wrote:

PSG and japanese music is like a honest and humble gentleman with warm heart and SID and european music in general is like an arrogant and barking punk with cold emotions. It's not hard to decide which is better. Smile

HA! Big smile
To compare sound chips to a person, even a person who has a raw voice and nasty sounding attitude, may have a warm heart. Wink So maybe I am arrogant and barking old gentleman then. Big smile And when comparing to music played by real instruments, even a raw sounding guitar torturing tune may have warm hearted mood. Smile

By max_iwamoto

Hero (548)

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29-05-2012, 04:58

Meits wrote:

1. PSG is horrible on its own, so I avoid that thing as much as possible...
2. Falcom / T&E at least... Actually all, just to be rid of the PSG Wink

@alexworp3: I agree with the T&E soft thing... Someone should do something about that Smile

I think somebody just did something about it... Wink

http://www.msx.org/news/en/ashguine-story-ii-translation-and...

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