Laydock 2 sucks!!

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By wyrdwad

Champion (386)

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16-07-2017, 03:05

I've only played Daiva IV, so I don't know if Daiva V is any different -- but the planet segments in Daiva IV are objectionably difficult, and when you lose one, the ship you have in orbit above the planet is destroyed too for some reason. The ship you spent IMMENSE AMOUNTS OF TIME AND MONEY BUILDING UP.

It's just way too harsh a penalty for failing a planet raid, and the planet raids are just way too difficult in the first place. I've only ever JUST BARELY managed to succeed in ONE planet raid, period, among maybe 20 attempts.

-Tom

By AxelStone

Prophet (2467)

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16-07-2017, 21:21

From my point of view Laydock 2 has a serious problem: Aleste 2. The game from Compile is really brilliant in all aspects: tecnical and playables. However Laydock 2 has several errors with playability very well described by @Louthrax, I agree with you about random move and scroll displacement, they are really frustrating.

I feel that Laydock 2 was more like "we need a MSX2+ game" that really a polished production. We have other example like F1 Spirit 3D Special (this one is really bad), it's clearly a game forced to be launched in MSX2+, not a usual production from Konami.

By wyrdwad

Champion (386)

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16-07-2017, 23:46

Yeah, when you compare Laydock 2 to Aleste 2, it just doesn't stand a chance.

T&E Soft did have one really good shmup on MSX, though, with Undeadline. I *love* Undeadline, despite its difficulty, because it's just incredible fun and varied, and also very DIFFERENT from Laydock or Aleste. And I think that difference is why it succeeds so thoroughly: it's not trying to do what someone else has already done better, but kind of doing its own thing. You could say it's following in the footsteps of games like Knightmare, I guess, but it takes a whole different approach to the "dude shmup" (as I've dubbed that particular subgenre!), and is much more successful because of it.

Compare Undeadline with something like Aleste Gaiden, and while Aleste Gaiden looks and (arguably) sounds much better, Undeadline is almost unquestionably the better game overall -- and that's because Aleste Gaiden really didn't do anything other "dude shmups" hadn't tried before. (That's not to say Aleste Gaiden isn't good, though, because it totally is! But it's not my favorite in the genre by any means.)

-Tom

By mfeingol

Master (237)

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17-07-2017, 01:29

@wyrdwad: my brief attempts at playing Daiva IV have ended in frustration. As you mention the planet battles are too fast-paced and difficult to win. Daiva V planet battles are much better-designed, and can be won with some practice. One thing that makes it easier as well is knowing which sector contains the hardest enemies, and then using the bomb for that sector and just staying away from it.

In both games losing a planet battle destroys your fleet. There had to be some penalty for losing, I guess. That's why I tend to approach planet battles with minimal fleets, e.g. containing just one missile ship. Later in the game you can spend on reinforced fleets with better weapons, but early on it's not worth the risk.

Regarding Undeadline, I always found it just slightly too difficult... A few more healing potions would have made it more rewarding overall. I agree it's an interesting and varied game, with all the different enemies and landscapes.

By syn

Paragon (1616)

syn's picture

17-07-2017, 10:38

Man so much hate towards (what I regard) one of the TOP msx games Big smile

Yes the game's design is not that good compared to Aleste 2 and probably hasn't aged well, but then again I don't think many games can compare to Aleste 2, it's in a class of its own Wink I played both games just as often.

Undeadline was amazing as well though but a very hard game (I've never completed Undeadline, but Laydock 2 we did complete) and plagued by slowdown unfortunately. Great graphics and music as well in this one. The cavern and dungeon themes were some of my favorite msx tunes Big smile

Aleste Gaiden was okay, I loved some of the music and the graphics were fantastic, big and good looking sprites, but I thought it lacked something (compared to aleste 2, 1), I'd say Laydock 2 was better.

By Meits

Scribe (4398)

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17-07-2017, 11:35

Laydock 2 too hard. Aleste Gaiden too easy. The average of both could be the ideal level. I can't say the music of Aleste Gaiden is anything special except the intro and level 5. They didn't bother "lending" music from their other games either (at least game-over comes from Golvellius).
Laydock too clearly suffered from a deadline (same as F - 1 Spirit 3D) where Aleste Gaiden seems to be a funny arcade game to finish during lunchbreak.

By wyrdwad

Champion (386)

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17-07-2017, 11:53

I prefer the stage 1 theme from Aleste Gaiden to the stage 1 theme from either Aleste 1 or 2, actually. It's one of my favorite MSX themes, in fact! One of my favorite tracks from any Compile MSX game, along with Try Out from Madou Monogatari.

-Tom

By Louthrax

Paragon (1602)

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17-07-2017, 11:54

syn wrote:

Man so much hate towards (what I regard) one of the TOP msx games Big smile

Hi Syn,

To be sure: you're talking about Laydock 2 here right Smile (not Super Laydock)?

In this case, I have 2 questions for you:

  • What did you like in that game (you're mainly talking about the positive points of other games here Tongue)?
  • How do you beat the blob-ice boss of stage 2?? I manage to get consistently to that bastard now, but I'm always getting crushed in one of the corners of the screen!

By journey

Master (152)

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17-07-2017, 12:14

UNDEADLINE completed many years ago (fantastic game)
LAYDOCK 2 I never beat the stage 2 boss...

Gianluca

By syn

Paragon (1616)

syn's picture

17-07-2017, 15:53

Louthrax I played Laydock 2 usually in 2 player mode, I think that makes the game a bit easier Big smile

But I don't remember how I or we beat that boss, it was really 25 years ago or so since I last played that game seriously. Perhaps I will give it a go later today.

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