MegaFlashRom ripoffs?

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By Grauw

Ascended (8389)

Grauw's picture

02-08-2018, 09:05

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By Wolverine_nl

Paragon (1025)

Wolverine_nl's picture

02-08-2018, 09:31

this is between Mr Pazos and Mr Luca and the one that discovered this should have sent Mr Pazos an email so they could have dealt this behind closed doors and not make a drama of this openly, that is my opinion. (I do understand the fuss ofcourse Wink )

By gdx

Prophet (2979)

gdx's picture

02-08-2018, 10:01

Guillian wrote:

AFAIK, I developed the first "MegaFlashROM" based on K. Tsujikawa's work.
http://www.hat.hi-ho.ne.jp/tujikawa/flashrom/flashrom.html
As you can see, he named it as ESE ROM Disk. (似非ROMディスク)

For the history (based on my experience):
All MSX users know the term "Megarom". This is a commercial term for a cartridge that contains a ROM of one mega bits or more.
At first, when the rom was replaced by a sram, naturally the name became Mega + sram. This DIY cartridge has become popular so the MSX Newline Club in Tokyo has organized meetings (似非RAMセミナー) to help users make one. Sram is pronounced エセラム (ESE-RAM) in japanese. 似非 (ESE) means Fake in japanese. This is the reason why this term became more popular afterwards.
The Mega-scsi who came in second kept the first way to name (contraction of Mega sram SCSI). Normal since its use was not intended to make copies. The DIY mega flash rom SCC and ASCII arrived a little later and the name ese-flashrom or mega flashrom were used. In fact it did not have a specific name, same for the Mega-SRAM but for me who knew this cartridge before ESE-RAM became popular, Mega-Sram and Mega-FlashRom will remain a generic name for this kind of cartridge.

Vampier,
I agree naming a prodcuts with the same name as established products causes confusion. That is also the case for me with the different cartridges from Guillian (to make wiki). The cartridge of Brazil does not change much finally. And then appoint a new same product with a different name could also create confusion (eg Memory Mapper called differently). We need also a generic name to speak things.

By Guillian

Prophet (3230)

Guillian's picture

02-08-2018, 11:22

gdx wrote:

The DIY mega flash rom SCC and ASCII arrived a little later and the name ese-flashrom or mega flashrom were used. In fact it did not have a specific name, same for the Mega-SRAM but for me who knew this cartridge before ESE-RAM became popular, Mega-Sram and Mega-FlashRom will remain a generic name for this kind of cartridge.

Do you have any proof of that?
As far as I know, the first ESE ROM Disk was made in 2002 by K. Tsujikawa. That same year, I visited him at his home and he gave me that cartridge and explained how it worked. A few months later, the first MegaFlashROM cartridges were produced. There were no public schemes or meetings to build them.
Your information seems quite innacurate.

Anyway, this discussion is pointless.
I think that new flashROM cartridges should be named differently to avoid confusions. That's all.
Also, people how insinuated that I used SCC+ implementantions without authorization, should apologize. Anyone?

By gdx

Prophet (2979)

gdx's picture

02-08-2018, 12:07

Guillian wrote:

Anyway, this discussion is pointless.

Right, and that's the reason for my intervention.

Guillian wrote:

I think that new flashROM cartridges should be named differently to avoid confusions. That's all.

I think this request is not legitimate. You react as a company that they have official copyrights.

Guillian wrote:

Also, people how insinuated that I used SCC+ implementantions without authorization, should apologize. Anyone?

No importance for me. What matters is finding good MSX devices nowadays made by serious guys.

By Emerson Renato Cavallari

Supporter (4)

Emerson Renato Cavallari's picture

02-08-2018, 14:34

Pencioner wrote:

Sure, perfect! If someone raped your wife, go rape someone's wife too. The perfection in action, bro!

We only said that the situation is the same, but in one of them people stay angry... in other, it´s ok!

By Meits

Scribe (5488)

Meits's picture

02-08-2018, 15:01

Company, copyright. For the audience not the thing that bothers. It's just the confusion.

See how Youtube's search results got polluted by motor cycles after Honda adopted the type MSX. It's impractical, confusing, but not illegal. Neither is it illegal to call this new cartridge MegaFlashROM. It's just highly illogical.
Where Guillian took his name from is not part of this "issue". It's just that if you search for MegaFlashROM information you find his device. Don't expect this is going to change because of its popularity.

If a buyer of the new cartridge is asking around for tips and info on a forum, they'll get information about Guillian's device. If they search information on google, they'll get information about Guillian's device. If people recomend new users to buy a MegaFlashROM they're recomended to buy Guillian's device. Until now that's the device they'd get. I can understand Guillian wants to keep it that way. But so does a customer. If the customer comes back to the forum and says he bought the MegaFlashROM and asks around for tips only to find out he bought the wrong one. I wouldn't be surprised if a newcomer would say "well f*+k this, I'm going back to the other retro scene where I came from, where two different devices have two different names". Avoidable confusion.

Do understand very clearly that I applaud any development and production of any new piece of hardware. Same goes for this device. I do not want to spread my opinion as rock solid wisdom. But I can't believe you don't see what I mean.

By l_oliveira

Hero (526)

l_oliveira's picture

02-08-2018, 16:16

Guillian wrote:

Also, people how insinuated that I used SCC+ implementantions without authorization, should apologize. Anyone?

I said you used code from 1-chip MSX made by Tsujikawa. I never said you did so without authorization. The fact the code is public implies it's free to be used that way.
Same said about JIPE's Konami4 clone flashrom hardware, publicly available at msxvillage.fr and Fabio Belavenuto's SD Mapper in his Github repository. Even the original stickers for the 2014 SD Mapper can be found there. It's really hard to find the MEGA-SD files on Tsujikawa's site, you know? They're there but you need to know how to read Japanese to actually find them. My goal was point out hypocrisy on people pointing fingers against the cartridges they were accusing of being rip offs.

Your MFR product is awesome, there's a lot of value in it and I know many MSX users which own one here in Brazil and are absolutely satisfied with it. When I said "nobody mentions that" I was poking the people who were talking about these devices implying they were really copying your product inner workings (which they are not). I'm not discussing the stickers or confusing naming. Neither I criticized your product at any point. Please understand that I kept mentions to your product at minimum exactly because I believe you did absolutely nothing wrong at any point on your long time producing these devices. I am by this apologizing because people took what I wrote in a slightly different way than I expected. But indeed it actually achieved the result I expected.

So, I am apologizing only to you, because I believe you did nothing wrong.

By Guillian

Prophet (3230)

Guillian's picture

02-08-2018, 17:09

gdx wrote:

I think this request is not legitimate. You react as a company that they have official copyrights.

I'm not requesting anything or threatening anyone. I just said that using a different name would prevent confussions. Most users here agree on that.

@l_oliveria: Thanks. I apreciate that.

About 1chipMSX sources. The ones I have say:

Quote:

3. Redistributions may not be sold, nor may they be used in a commercial product or activity without specific prior written permission.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1303)

Kai Magazine's picture

02-08-2018, 17:50

Guillian,
Hundreds upon hundreds (probably thousands) of users around the world know YOUR products and your customer service. That will not change any time soon, and much less by the opinion of 1 single user.
It is a shame the site admins don’t act upon those kinds of offtopic attacks originated for what obviously seems some kind of personal vendetta (this is not the first time this happens, nor the second...).
Anyway, keep up the good work! Your contribution to the MSX scene is beyond any shadow of doubt!

Edit: Also, it is easy to check that Guilian has not written here to demand or acusate anyone of anything, he did just reply to an accusation. He could have written on the facebook post of this new megaflashrom announcement, but he never did.

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