MSX, SymbOS images?

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By RealHuman

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28-07-2018, 01:58

@sd_snatcher
I am really a fan of Manga, but they look nice. The colors are especially good looking.
Did you get all of them in digital form or are you still missing some?

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (2914)

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28-07-2018, 02:16

I could find just some few of them in digital format. But the vast majority is still missing.

By RealHuman

Supporter (15)

RealHuman's picture

30-07-2018, 15:36

@sd_snatcher
That's a problem that will only get bigger with time. Lots and lots of valuable things created in the digital era will be lost. Seems like the people focus on preserving books and movies in libraries, scanning them, storing in cloud but nobody really thinks about preserving the digital stuff. There is already lots of files we can't open today because there is just no software.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9727)

wolf_'s picture

30-07-2018, 19:26

sd_snatcher wrote:

My two cents is that it's not easy to draw a line. These days, nearly everyone will use modern tools to draw the images, and some conversion will be taken at least at some step.
(..)
If such form of expression is left out, then you'll probably have mostly to restrict your repository to images that were hand drawn in the 80's, in their native systems.

A few days old, this remark, but I still want to bring it up again as it makes sense.

Back then, when an MSX was our only computer, you had no choice but to draw with the MSX itself. Those were the days of Age, Graphsaurus and Designer Plus. Those tools 've dealt with absolute data, not virtual data. You had your 16 colours and that would be it. It was up to you to incorporate any kind of dithering/rastering, so it was up to you to actually fake more colours. There was some art in there for sure. Nowadays, a PC is the high-level tools and while its colours are as good as absolute for a PC, they're as good as virtual for any MSX. In the MSX days, you had to carefully deal with rasters in order to get a large screen-filling gradient. A good example from JP would be the title screen for Dragon Quiz. Nowadays you just pull a gradient in PhotoShop, and you convert it towards MSX with any kind of dithering. Although it will result in a more realistic display of graphical ideas, it kind of feels like it's too easy. Strangely enough.

The theory I have is that it's kind of hard for a retro audience to accept such high-level ways of developing visual art as being genuine. So, even if the same old retro system is capable of showing high-level ideas reduced to a low-level display, it may feel weird. This would also kind of explain why the G9k never really caused a stream of games, even if this chip is the easiest MSX-videochip to program, while the MSX1 is still booming.

Is this an example of the uncanny valley?

Is dithering/rastering actually an example of an uncanny valley? Or only if the dithering is only applied to visual ideas which no human could reduce by hand?

So, the point was about sd_snatcher's remark that about everyone uses modern tools anyway. I wonder whether this is a good thing, a bad thing, an unavoidable thing, or perhaps even something of the older generation vs a younger generation.

It's certainly easier to develop graphics on a PC. It's easier to experiment with colours, it's easier to reduce smooth colour hues. Because all colours and objects are as good as virtual, you're likely never to be limited by anything. If you use 3D-tools, even the visual objects themselves aren't set in stone as you can tweak lights, cameras, textures etc. Drawing this by hand would mean you'd have to make a choice prior to the drawing process. Also, I doubt whether "light refraction in glass phong-shaded objects" is a good idea to draw by hand. I can see how artists would prefer a sense of freedom and tools here.

But does the end user actually look at "MSX-art" or at "PC-art reduced to MSX-limitations"...? And more importantly: does it influence whether we like such projects or not? Would we rather watch a hand-drawn yet not so spiffy looking car, or a photo of car reduced to MSX, full of dithering? It's mostly a philosophical thing here... :murdock:

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