Sprite flicker

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By PingPong

Prophet (4093)

PingPong's picture

14-03-2010, 21:18

I still don't get the point. There are many C64 games with sprite multiplexing to get more than 8 on screen, some of them have a multitude of sprites on screen compared to the video you just posted.

The point is simple: if one have a number of "vertical bands" where a group of 8 sprites can live, one can get, pratically without flickering more than 8 sprites on screen.
Otherwise: having 16 sprites aligned on a single scanline without flickering is not pratically possible.

However, there are some situations where it's necessary to have more than 8 sprites/scanline. they will flicker, and is *NOT* sloppy coding.

to be clear:

if a sprite is "*" (1) is possible without flickering (2) need to flicker

(1)
********
******** -> 16 sprites on two bands
(2)
*************** -> 16 sprites on one band or scaline aligned.

By Hrothgar

Champion (479)

Hrothgar's picture

14-03-2010, 22:35

I understand what you're saying, and I believe nothing contradicts with what I said.

By hit9918

Prophet (2927)

hit9918's picture

19-03-2010, 16:54

@PingPong

However, there are some situations where it's necessary to have more than 8 sprites/scanline. they will flicker, and is *NOT* sloppy coding.

Yes, there are situations where it is nessesary to flicker. And C64 practically cannot flicker. So the typical C64 game does cut ALL these situations completely out of the game design! This means these situations do not happen, this means the gameplay is crippled.

see youtube, for example IO level 4: because of the HARD per scanline limit, the second sine wave CANNOT appear if the enemies from first sine wave do not get shot. This makes my MSX1 laugh.

Katakis: the enemies take the sprites. katakis got a lot of chaotic wobbeling charset bullets flying around. no precision. style: C64 autofire joystick game.

so contrary to the many praises, the C64 sprites got a weakness: too weak for true Gradius gameplay.
In the Gradius genre the flickering MSX1 sprites are stronger.

By hit9918

Prophet (2927)

hit9918's picture

19-03-2010, 17:39

look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_KPLft7YQ

I found something very similar: fire planet of Salamander C64, dragon end boss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDk03mBmQQI

- the options permanently flicker, no 9th sprite considerations.
- the enemy does normal flicker.
- slow motion framerate

probably the same code.

flicker the player sprites more than enemies, and even worse, flicker when not needed:
I dont get it.

By PingPong

Prophet (4093)

PingPong's picture

19-03-2010, 19:45

look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_KPLft7YQ

I found something very similar: fire planet of Salamander C64, dragon end boss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDk03mBmQQI

- the options permanently flicker, no 9th sprite considerations.
- the enemy does normal flicker.
- slow motion framerate

probably the same code.

flicker the player sprites more than enemies, and even worse, flicker when not needed:
I dont get it.

i see. Salamander was an 8 bit killer! too much sprites, to low resources on hw.

HW sprites, are effectively the wrong way to achieve animation on computers.
Not strangely, 16 bits computers replaced sprites with a more flexible form of DMA: the blitter.

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