Your choice MSX or C64

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By hamlet

Scribe (1867)

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14-11-2018, 20:02

Caren and the Tangled Tentacles was still a preview version. Although it is very impressing, it never got finished AFAIK.

By syn

Paragon (1885)

syn's picture

16-11-2018, 00:07

Meits wrote:

I would like a C64 in my collection one day. It's just that I'm against joysticks and find the C64 cursorkeys a bit inadequate. Same goes for its basic. Somehow I'm quite impressed by what the SID chip can do. Now I do have a SID chip, but it's in a Playsoniq in stead of a C64 and there's not a way to program the SID on my MSX as far as I know.

Is there a Commodore with SID and normal cursor keys? Are there SID trackers for it?

Of course there are SID trackers on the C64. They do amazing things with it. I'm actually interested in trying some of those in emulator but never get around to do it. I love the SID sound, and often listen/watch c64 demos on youtube. However I don't think it fits the MSX, partly due to not many playsoniqs around and the feeling that to me msx = psg+opll with a bit of SCC.

For SID on MSX there are some stuff like RoboSID where you can playback the songs you wrote on commodore on a msx with psq.

By syn

Paragon (1885)

syn's picture

16-11-2018, 00:23

Ontopic: Back in the days I was totally biased and would always say msx rules commodore sucks (I was a 12~14yo kid) but looking back I would say the C64 is amazing. The SID is an amazing soundchip, like I said before I think it is a lot better than PSG and even OPLL in some situations. A lot of demos that I see on youtube are amazing and a lot of effects I have not seen on msx ever. So I could say the system is better than msx1 or even 2.

HOWEVER, I have ZERO emotional attachment to commodore: I grew up with msx, I like MSX games and music and I visit msx.org and #msxdev every day. MSX is where I started making music when I was younger and even now msx is the only platform I am learning to code for.

So the answer is easy: I prefer MSX Cool

By Shinobi

Resident (52)

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16-11-2018, 16:23

syn wrote:

HOWEVER, I have ZERO emotional attachment to commodore: I grew up with msx, I like MSX games and music and I visit msx.org and #msxdev every day. MSX is where I started making music when I was younger and even now msx is the only platform I am learning to code for.

So the answer is easy: I prefer MSX Cool

This is the key, I think C64 is more capable machine is some areas since its chips is custom chips designed for this purpose.
BUT, MSX (and MSX1 especially) is the one I'm attached too, and still think that it didn't take its chance like C64. MSX targeted several markets and its fans were spread all over the place, there was the language barrier for books and software and for that reason it didn't have the software library the speccy and C64 had.

Still, as an Iraqi, I used MSX in 1999 since it was cheap enough to buy although it was used in 1980's but I was not born yet.

Got to admit that the Arabs gave MSX its value, they made great educational softwares for it, this is the library as you see:

https://www.file-hunter.com/Arabic/

By PingPong

Prophet (3147)

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16-11-2018, 21:34

syn wrote:

The SID is an amazing soundchip, like I said before I think it is a lot better than PSG and even OPLL in some situations.

i do not agree. the SID is techically superior when compared to PSG of course, but compared with OPLL is like a TOAD singing compared with a Siren .

With SID you get always the same kind of sounds peraphs those typical of those chips like it's for PSG or SCC.
When you ear the sound of FM OPLx if you want a Trumpet you get a Trumpet, if you want a Violin or a Sinth or a drum you get *REALISTIC* sound. SID produces only sound effects, more elaborate than PSG ones, but always sound effects.

By Nprod

Rookie (23)

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16-11-2018, 21:45

I have no emotional attachment to either the C64 or the MSX - i wasn't around when they were new and neither were ever sold in my country. My "nostalgia factor" rests solely with DOS/IBM-PC clones of the 90s.

But out of the two, C64 is my choice. Not so much from a technical standpoint but because its userbase is so large and very much alive to this day. There's just a lot more software for it, making it a friendlier platform to get into. The MSX relied mostly on cartridge software, most of it sold in Japan, making it rare, some of which used custom chips (SCC). Getting an "authentic experience" for the system costs a lot more money these days. While a good breadbin will set you back about 40-50$, the cheapest MSX listings on eBay start at about 70$. An SD cartridge is also more expensive than something like an SD2IEC due to less popularity and thus lower demand.

I like the MSX more from a technical standpoint - it doesn't rely on custom chips as much as the C64, where a SID chip now costs as much as a whole unit. Both the 6510 and VIC-II are custom Commodore ICs as opposed to the more generic VDPs and Z80s on the MSX. The VRAM is separate from the main memory, which is pretty neat. You can upgrade an MSX1 to an MSX2 with some technical know-how. The design of MSX machines is more aesthetically pleasing, to me anyway, and there are many quirky models to explore like the CX5M/7Ms, arabic Sanyos and soviet КУВТ school machines.

By fernando.collazo.5682

Master (232)

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16-11-2018, 22:21

OK I must admite the C64 is much better than any MSX version but only in demoscene.
The C64 has a majority of european games and they haven`t any appeal to me, I always preffer japanese games.
For me these are the MSX standard faults:
- MSX1 no scroll;
- MSX2 no better CPU and no default YM2413;
- MSX2+ never had to be existed;
- TurboR well what say about this frankenstein...

By QBee Sam

Master (163)

QBee Sam's picture

17-11-2018, 01:32

For me MSX2 is the best 80's 8bit computer by far, but being honest C64 is an amazing computer. Designed as console (afaik) and born as computer, C64 sounds pretty well out of the box and it's graphics looks great for a 1982 device, but... as computer is far from perfection. I dont know your experiences but back in the 80s the MSX2 was the better computer to buy IMHO, at least in Spain, my Philips NMS-8245 with the 2DD disk drive, 256 colors Videographics, Ease package, the MSX-DOS and MSX Basic out of the box turns my MSX2 in a "winner horse". I agree C64 have largest community, but dont forget the MSX scene is prolific as any other in hardware devices and hight quality software.

Right now the C64 and the MSX are just older games machines, but back in the days the scenary was completly different, all of them, CPC, Spectrum, Commodore and MSX were sold as home computers, and so sorry for the rest, but even the MSX1 were designed in a clever way and the hardware available and the upgrade capabilities made them the best of all.

In other hand, the MSX evolution is not perfect, but think about the others, Spectrum ZX 48,128,Plus,Plus2,Plus3 are the same but PSG and more memory, CPC464,CPC128 and CPC+ (as the MSX2+ arrives too late for a 8 bits computer), and about Commodore, the only upgrade was to add memory and curiosly put an additional Z80!, the same CPU of the rest to compete as a home computer not only a gamebox!!!

Anyway, I totally agree the emotional factor defines the winner, for a C64 user the way the MSX2 moves its graphics sucks (I've read from them), the C64 moves the graphics as no other 8bit computer (even MSX2+)... but the C64 graphics are for my taste really, really far from the MSX2, and I prefer MSX2 even with the lack of horizontal scroll as I can live with ugly borders scroll but I want my nice colorfull defined graphics, the C64 user prefers ugliest colors and low resolution screen but smoother scroll.

By wyrdwad

Paladin (678)

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17-11-2018, 06:14

As an American retro gamer with Japanese near-fluency and a fondness for Japanese consoles like the NES, Sega Master System/Mark III, etc., as well as nostalgia for the Colecovision from my childhood, the MSX is the winner, hands down. I do want to own a C64 one day, and I'm sure I'd greatly enjoy it... but you're not going to find a lot of classic Japanese games on a C64! Whereas the MSX is overflowing with 'em...

-Tom

By yzi

Champion (434)

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17-11-2018, 17:03

Re: color palette. I'd much rather have the colors of stuff in my home selected from the C64 palette than the MSX1 palette.

https://csdb.dk/release/?id=170969
https://csdb.dk/release/?id=170926
https://csdb.dk/release/?id=170995
https://csdb.dk/release/?id=170937

It's like,

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