Testing sound of different MSX sound chips and their FPGA implementations

Page 5/9
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9

By Pencioner

Paladin (858)

Pencioner's picture

10-05-2018, 14:49

sdsnatcher73 wrote:

Hmm, I didn't know C2 contained an AMP. When I first received my C2 I felt music was playing very distorted. I turned down the C2 SCC and FM volume to 2 to get an acceptable output (this was on an NMS8245). To me it sounded like the output was going over the acceptable range.

I have tested different volume levels (changing values in bootblock) and overall the SCC sound is almost the same, at least on external 3.5 mm output. Can't test sound via computer (slot SNDIN) as i have already cut pin 49 from the cartridge and don't want to bother with soldering Smile

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1722)

Pablibiris's picture

10-05-2018, 14:51

I'm guided by what I hear and not by some graphics of a program.
And my conclusion is that the MFR sounds MUCH better than the Carnivore.
Sounds perfect for me.

By Pencioner

Paladin (858)

Pencioner's picture

10-05-2018, 15:51

Pablibiris wrote:

I'm guided by what I hear and not by some graphics of a program.
And my conclusion is that the MFR sounds MUCH better than the Carnivore.
Sounds perfect for me.

Hearing is very subjective in general. And for my ears (not guided by any pictures too) - PSG in MFR in some cases sounds worse, in some cases sounds better, but overall pretty much imperfect, comparing to real one. Basically i'm happy that i didn't sell my homebrew ESE SCC and SCC flashrom based on real chips once (initially i was 'come on, every mass storage cartridge now has SCC, do i need those?'). I'm not sure if there were any attempts to reach sound emulation perfection for PSG or SCC, like i see here: NES Music Player (FPGA) but i suppose that should be possible to make an FPGA ones for those chips sounding much closer to their originals. Anyway, as all of the emulated chips of Carnivore2 has missing the higher frequencies a lot in the sound, that actually might be only some filter issue or so. I hope RBSC will make once a release with great improvements on the sound ;)

... and regarding the link above - it has link to freely available sources for NES APU - i encourage someone with VHDL skills to make a firmware with it, f.e. Zemmix Neo firmware, maybe without OPLL to free some room to fit that NES APU or so. Or maybe GR8NET replacement of MP3 functionality to have NES APU instead. I would add support to vgmplay then. They had some very nice tunes though :)

By Guillian

Prophet (3197)

Guillian's picture

10-05-2018, 18:31

@Pencioner, thanks for the tests. I have removed the "Filtered Pulse Wave Modulation D/A Conveter" used in MFR SD. Now the sound is not filtered. Here are the results (recorded from turbo R ST without mixer fix):
MFR SD PSG
MFR SD SCC

By Pencioner

Paladin (858)

Pencioner's picture

10-05-2018, 19:15

Great, unfiltered output sounds much better! Which brings up: how can i update firmware? I don't mind breaking the case - i got Overrich case to replace (only one left so far though). And if i open the case I also will cut off the pin 49 and make proper 3.5mm audio output Wink Btw, i googled for some photos of MFR inside and the MFR doesn't seem to have any JTAG on it...

By sdsnatcher73

Champion (307)

sdsnatcher73's picture

10-05-2018, 20:21

Agreed, very nice. And I'd love to update my MFR SCC+ and SCC+ SD as well...

By Guillian

Prophet (3197)

Guillian's picture

10-05-2018, 21:01

Pencioner wrote:

Great, unfiltered output sounds much better! Which brings up: how can i update firmware? I don't mind breaking the case - i got Overrich case to replace (only one left so far though). And if i open the case I also will cut off the pin 49 and make proper 3.5mm audio output Wink Btw, i googled for some photos of MFR inside and the MFR doesn't seem to have any JTAG on it...

The FPGA configuration can be updated using a Xilinx Platform cable or similar/compatible.
The JTAG is under the microSD socket.
AFAIK, the Overrich case is not compatible with MFR SD PCB.

Anyway, anyone interested in updating the cartridge can send it to me and I'll do it for free. Just contact me on MSX Cartridge Shop email.

By Parn

Champion (349)

Parn's picture

11-05-2018, 15:36

Pencioner wrote:

SCC tests now. GR8NET was again well close to the original sound and best among others.

My personal ranking:

  1. Real SCC
  2. MegaFlashROM
  3. GR8NET
  4. Carnivore 2

I actually think the GR8NET sounds better than the MFR (meatier bass, more defined sound), but it seems to me that instrument rendering is more faithful in the MFR. This can be heard around 0:17, where SCC and MFR have a "dirtier" bass, which seems to sustain for a bit longer in the lowest notes, while GR8NET makes shorter and "cleaner" sounds. It also sounds a bit smoother than SCC and MFR in the highest frequencies, which is pleasant but not very SCC-like. Carnivore 2, unfortunately, isn't even in the same league.

By the way, I would love being able to listen to NES music on the MSX, and use its sound chip together with the MSX ones. More pulse wave goodness!

Guillian wrote:

@Pencioner, thanks for the tests. I have removed the "Filtered Pulse Wave Modulation D/A Conveter" used in MFR SD. Now the sound is not filtered. Here are the results (recorded from turbo R ST without mixer fix):
MFR SD PSG
MFR SD SCC

This sounds awesome! I love my MFR but I'll consider sending it back to Europe if it can be made to sound that good!

By Samor

Paragon (2019)

Samor's picture

21-05-2018, 13:27

I was comparing the SCC in the Zemmix with a real one (F1 Spirit cartridge) and first I have to complement the FPGA implementation on being very good.... I hadn't listened to a real SCC for a long time and I honestly couldn't tell the difference at first glance.
That said, the real one sounds a bit more "noisy", less clean than the built-in one. That's also how I remember them.

By Alexey

Guardian (1985)

Alexey's picture

26-05-2018, 22:16

Guillian wrote:

@Pencioner, thanks for the tests. I have removed the "Filtered Pulse Wave Modulation D/A Conveter" used in MFR SD. Now the sound is not filtered. Here are the results (recorded from turbo R ST without mixer fix):
MFR SD PSG
MFR SD SCC

Manuel, what tunes did you use to make those mp3s? I would like to record the sound with the new Carnivore's firmware. We also optimized the filtering for PSG and SCC.

Page 5/9
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
My MSX profile